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13 yr old Babe Ruth.

2nd trip to the mound, manager brings in shortstop to pitch, pitcher goes to shortstop.

New pitcher faces one battter and then the manager comes out to the mound and switches these same two players. Can the original pitcher who was moved to shortstop come back and pitch again?

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And not only is the original pitcher not allowed to re-enter, but in this instance the shortstop is also ineligible to pitch again during the game. Changing a pitcher mid-inning is considered a trip since it delays the game.

EDIT: I'm wanting to say the trip is counted against the new pitcher, not the one leaving. Is that correct?

Edited by moblue

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Manager makes a trip to the mound. After two outs, the manager yells to the shortstop and pitcher and tells them to change positions. The manager then yells to me and says "I can bring the pitcher back to pitch because I did not make a second trip to the mound". I called time and told him that it was a trip and the original pitcher can not pitch again. We go back and forth a couple of times, and then the opposing manager asks me to let him make the switch and not delay the game (his team was winning by alot). The pitcher (shortstop) pitched the whole next inning. One inning later, the manager makes two trip to the mound and on his second trip he moves the original pitcher back from shortstop to pitch the rest of the game. During this time, the opposing manager called a league director who says that the move the manager made is legal because he did not make a second trip to the mound to remove the original pitcher. The director and the "guilty" manager stated that what he did was no different than yelling out and telling two outfielders to change positions. I hope you guy got all this and can help me determine if this was a legal move or not. Thanks

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In that case, I would only have one trip against the original pitcher. I would count the change as a trip against the new pitcher however. The original pitcher would still be eligible for re-entry as a pitcher. When the 2nd pitcher (orignally shortstop) is removed on the second trip, he would of course be ineligible to pitch for the remainder of the game.

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This is a visit to the pitcher on the mound. The manager called time, held up the game to switch pitchers, it has to be a visit. Now if he had changed him between innings then he could have come back but he exceeded his visit limit so he is done.

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my question is in regards to the visits. If you use 1 visit can the pitcher come back in? Two visits? What about re-entry if no visits are used? Is this only Babe Ruth or ORB in general? I heard of a protest in a Cal Ripken Provincial (state) tournament on the re-entry of the starting pitcher coming back later to pitch. The umpire disallowed it (said he could re-enter the game but not to pitch again) and the coach protested. The protest was uphelp and the pitcher was able to pitch again later in the game. I'm not sure if any visits were used when the original starter was pulled though.

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This is a visit to the pitcher on the mound. The manager called time, held up the game to switch pitchers, it has to be a visit. Now if he had changed him between innings then he could have come back but he exceeded his visit limit so he is done.
Do you have any official interpretation for this? No offense, it's just that the only thing I remember Babe Ruth saying in their interpretation is that switching pitchers mid inning is to be considered a trip since the purpose of the rule is to prevent delays. And I don't really see it as fair to the pitcher that the coach didn't go back out on the field a second time, yet he is still penalized for a second trip to the mound. Counting it as a trip on the new pitcher makes more sense to me.

my question is in regards to the visits. If you use 1 visit can the pitcher come back in? Two visits? What about re-entry if no visits are used? Is this only Babe Ruth or ORB in general? I heard of a protest in a Cal Ripken Provincial (state) tournament on the re-entry of the starting pitcher coming back later to pitch. The umpire disallowed it (said he could re-enter the game but not to pitch again) and the coach protested. The protest was uphelp and the pitcher was able to pitch again later in the game. I'm not sure if any visits were used when the original starter was pulled though.
The pitcher can re-enter the game as a pitcher later in the game if he is taken out with no trips to the mound or after one trip. If he is taken out after the second trip to the mound he can re-enter the game in any position except for pitcher. That's under the Cal Ripken/Babe Ruth rule set. Under OBR after a pitcher is taken off the mound he is done playing for the rest of the game. Edited by moblue

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Depends on how the rule is worded in your league. In LL tournament play. Also in LL the visit count resets when you change the pitcher. But also, that pitcher would not be allowed to return, once removed, the pitcher cannot pitch again in LL tournament play.

At that second time out he was required to remove the pitcher anyway. How can you say it's not a visit? Either way the pitcher had to go, it doesn't matter whether it was voluntary. Sounds like the rule he could come back would only apply if he was removed the very first time the coach came out.

Also, everything I find seems to contradict and says once removed a pitcher can't return. But I know little of Babe Ruth league.

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If the pitcher is changed, then no trip can be charged. Trips are not charged when there is a pitching change to any pitcher. Is this different in different rules? Every set I have ever heard of or seen [Fed included] has not charged a visit if a pitcher is changed. Now, if an illegal pitching change is attempted and caught, then the visit is charged and a legal change has to be done if necessary.

And, for when the original pitcher leaves the mound depends on rule set, of course.

In OBR, the pitcher may go from pitching to another position and back to pitching in the same inning or same game. He can only do this once during the inning and once brought back to the mound, he has to finish the inning unless removed from the game. And, there is no distinction that if it is on the second visit, he cannot return to the mound. This comes from MLBUM 7.3.

This is probably an area where LL and Babe Ruth differ from OBR. So, again, it depends on rule set.

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Mr Umpire. I guess I learned something new. It is written as an approved ruling that a visit is not charged to the NEW pitcher in the LL rulebook. And in the USRIM, for Junior League and above "where a pitcher may move to another position and return to pitch", a visit is not charged to the pitcher being replaced.

So from the sounds of it, he can do this because they explained the rule was as the same as this.

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In OBR, and I think BR, the pitcher has to to be replaced and may not return if it on the second visit. The rules doesn't say the second visit is charged visit, it simply says he has to go. LL is different in the fact that you get three visits per pitcher per game and a removal isn't a visit.

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Thanks for the input.

Some of you say it is ok, others not.

I still think it is a trip.

Thanks again!

There are so many grey areas in the rules then all the different subsets of rules add to that local rules situations like this are when you are required to umpire.

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