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If a pitcher's Windup position is very similar to a set position with runner/s on bases he has to announce this windup pitching to umpires under rule 5.07(a)(2) Comment. Is there a balk if he announces Windup and uses the set motion?

A friend asked me this the other night. R3. F1 is in the windup position with both hands at his side. He raises both hands simultaneously and brings them together chest high and pauses while he takes the signs from F2. Once he receives his signs, he begins a rocker step and continues with the pitch with no stop. Our chapter interpreter said balk and I disagreed. Interpreter said it would not be a balk if F1 started with glove hand at chest height and brought his hands together, but because he moved both hands it simulated the start of the pitching motion. My thought is that bringing the hands together is not the start of the pitching motion. Fed case books has these: 6.1.2 SITUATION C: With a runner on third base, F1 steps on to the pitcher’s plate in the windup position and his glove hand in front of his body and his pitching hand at his side (a) immediately brings his hands together for the purpose of taking the sign but does not begin his delivery, or (b) gets the sign and then brings his hands together and stops before delivering a pitch, or (c) gets the sign, brings his hands together and continues his pitching motion. RULING: In (a), (b) and (c), these are all legal moves. 6.1.2 SITUATION H: F1, with both arms at his side in the wind-up position, first moves his glove to a position in front of his chest, stops his momentum, and then moves his pitching hand into the glove. RULING: This is legal. Both of these address bringing the hands together, but both situations start with F1 having his glove hand in front to start. Can anyone offer more interpretations?

I have never seen a pitcher do what I saw in yesterday’s FED game, which was 1/4 finals of county tourney. F1 for home team is the dominant pitcher in the county and has (had) an unblemished record as a sophomore. He has used this motion all year without anyone making him alter it. With no runners, righty F1 starts with his pivot foot parallel to the rubber with his non-pivot foot also parallel to the rubber at a comfortable shoulder’s width apart. While standing erect on the mound, with his torso facing 3B, he took his sign with his hands at his sides. He then brought his hands together as he raised them over his head, stepped back with his non-pivot foot, twisting his torso so that he was facing HP, and continued his delivery so that it appeared more like a windup than a set position. With runners, he started in the same exact way, but he went through his windup in a traditional set position procedure. Opposing coach wanted to know if the first scenario was legal. I told him that the delivery appeared to me to be a new wrinkle on the set position, but F1 was not doing anything specifically that violated any pitching restrictions because there were no stops and the motion was continuous. My partner and I discussed it and we both came to the same conclusion that weird did not equal illegal. Our view was that he was pitching from the set position in both scenarios. Thoughts? Did we miss it? Fire away!

Our Association is having a dandy time dealing with this topic, I would like to get some feedback on how this is handled. The situation is using a FED rule set under 6-1-2. The discussion centers around the current fad of the pitcher standing in the windup position with THE HEELS OF BOTH FEET touching the front edge of the pitcher's plate prior to delivery. Can the pitcher legally deliver a pitch from this position? Our rule interpreter says no. However, a reading of the BRD Section 406 denotes, "In the windup position the pitcher must stand with his non-pivot foot on or behind a line extending through the FRONT EDGE of the pitcher's plate. (6-1-2) PENALTY: ball/balk if a pitch is delivered." Carl Childress notes that at a TASO state meeting in January 2010, he asked Kyle McNeely (NFHS Rules Committee Member): "Is that legal?" Answer: "Yes." Several Association members indicated they recalled a picture or mechanigram showing this as illegal, while several others remember something very different (I am sure that sounds familiar to many of you on this website)!! Any help you can add to put this to rest would be appreciated.

So here is a related question to the topic brought up in this thread: Pickoff from the Windup Is it possible to be in the windup and attempt a pickoff to 2nd? The comment on the rule states that the pitcher may "step and throw to a base." Is that even possible to 2nd? If so, how?

Apologies in advance for the long-winded post: Background Info: So, a couple of years ago, I read in OBR that a pickoff attempt from the windup is legal. This blew my mind since I nor anyone I've ever asked about it has seen it employed. Everyone assumes a pitcher on the rubber in the windup must disengage to attempt a pickoff, but that is simply not true per OBR 8.0.1 (a). Rule 8.01(a) Comment: In the Windup Position, a pitcher is permitted to have his “free†foot on the rubber, in front of the rubber, behind the rubber or off the side of the rubber. From the Windup Position, the pitcher may: (1) deliver the ball to the batter, or (2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or (3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides). In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first. He may not go into a set or stretch position—if he does it is a balk. Also, there is this: © At any time during the pitcher’s preliminary movements and until his natural pitching motion commits him to the pitch, he may throw to any base provided he steps directly toward such base before making the throw. Rule 8.01© Comment: The pitcher shall step “ahead of the throw.†A snap throw followed by the step directly toward the base is a balk. So, very clearly, it is legal. Why it is never seen, I don't know, but because it is never seen it should work; however, it is equally likely to be ruled incorrectly for the very same reason. Questions: 1) Playing in 12U Cal Ripken. What it is the proper etiquette for alerting the umps that we may try this during a game? Should I approach in a pre-game conversation? I don't think an in game argument will go my way if he calls a balk (assuming our pitcher otherwise executes the move correctly). 2) I have recorded videos of one of our pitchers working on it in practice. The first shows his normal motion from the windup. In the other two, you will see pickoff attempts to first from the windup. In one, Camden brings his hands together. I believe doing so is not a part of his "natural motion," as he has to pause here before pitching. Thus his next movement, a step back, is actually the beginning of his natural pitching motion. As such, a pickoff attempt from this position (hands together) should be legal. In the second of these two, Camden never brings his hands together. He steps on the rubber, pauses (to give runner time to move off of the base), brings his pitching hand and ball to his ear (in what looks like him scratching his head), then he steps and throws to first. I like this move better, as it positions the ball in a throwing position before making the pickoff attempt, thereby giving him an added advantage. This, too, should be legal according to OBR rules. Would like your feedback on each. (Note: these are not moves we have practiced and there is lots of room for polishing them up; we just did a quick shoot after practice tonight.) Here are the links: 1) Throwing Home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC46vjqiQXg 2) Pickoff to First (hands "set"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdyEgTmf_5U (really, just the first attempt shows hands set) 3) Pickoff to First (hands not "set"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qEVGP9F8KU Thanks, Jim