Jump to content

Remove these ads by becoming a Premium Member


Established Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by beerguy55

  1. beerguy55

    Triple Play Appeal LSU

    It was a mistake by everyone all around. It was indeed the original R2, the one who got tagged out (compare the socks of the original R3 and R2 and you'll see which one is standing on base when the appeal is made). No idea why R2 decided to stay on base after being tagged out, nor why umps/coaches/players didn't notice. In the end, defensive coach knew they were doing an appeal, umps knew they were doing an appeal, so I suspect they just focused on that. I'm also suspecting the guy handling the on screen graphic and score was just lost - B/R was called out, but you can't see if he arbitrarily decided to stay on his base too. I'm about 99% sure BU saw U2's out call and the discussion was to just make sure they were all on the same page.
  2. beerguy55

    Triple Play Appeal LSU

    The one thing the announcers got right is there should not have been a runner on third base when the appeal was made - he was tagged out. (and that was indeed the original R2 standing on base there for some odd reason) It should have been two out, R2 (btw, he never tagged up either), with a run in, pending appeal. I don't see PU make ANY call after R3 crosses the plate...if he didn't see the batter was called out, he should be calling R3 out on the force, no? If he sees B/R is out, is no signal/call here correct - or should he be signalling safe? I'm wondering if he did see U2's call. Also - unless NCAA score keeping rules are different than OBR, I'm pretty sure it's a triple play OBR Rule 9.11 Comment: The official scorer shall credit a double play or triple play also if an appeal play after the ball is in possession of the pitcher results in an additional putout
  3. beerguy55

    2 strikes 1 pitch

    The ruling above (which is in the Pitching section of the rule book, and then references Rule 7 for the batter's part in the scenario), seems to be in the context of the batter causing, or potentially causing, the pitcher to "balk" by calling time and stepping out of the box without time granted - sounds like FED wants, when the pitcher is on the rubber and the batter is in the box, if the batter steps out with BOTH feet, a strike called immediately. And then if the pitcher throws while the batter is going "wtf?" a second strike should be called. This, to me, seems to fly in the face of the quick pitch rule and the safety therein - encouraging/allowing the pitcher to pitch when the batter (and possibly the catcher/umpire) clearly isn't ready.
  4. beerguy55

    2 strikes 1 pitch

    Is this the exact scenario you had? Batter steps out, call strike. PItcher throws. Call a strike. 'cause you could also have Pitcher Throws, call strike. Batter steps out and delays, call strike. Batter delays more, call strike. Not only two strikes on one pitch, but three strikes on one pitch. According to 7-3-1 you could get three strikes on no pitches, could you not?
  5. beerguy55

    What is the correct call?

    In softball, first, the runner is NOT out if on the base when he is hit by the ball. The ball can be dead or alive, depending on the positioning of the fielders. If it passed a fielder it's live, if not it's dead. On a dead ball the runners remain on their base, unless forced by the batter. Unless the shortstop was playing inside the baseline this is probably going to be a dead ball, with batter getting first, and R2 staying on second unless there was already a runner on first. There are also some variants of slow pitch where this is always a live ball.
  6. beerguy55


    There are some variances among the softball codes, but I don't think much. First - the other team must appeal before the offending team notices and announces the substitution. In this case, the offense must appeal before the defense fixes it. Assuming that happens - Essentially - the player is declared ineligible, must leave the game, and must be subbed - in this case, it's a double whammy - because it's an illegal re-entry, the player who original subbed to bat is now out of the game, the player who was re-entered without announcement is also out of the game. If the team has no other subs, they forfeit. AND...if the offense appeals before the next pitch, they have the option to nullify the pitch/play - the batter would return with whatever count he had before the pitch he hit for the out. The appealing team has the choice - so, for example, if the batter got a hit and two RBI's, and then appealed the substitution, they could take the play, and get the player removed from the game. Or, they could wait until a scenario came up where that illegal substitute made an out - they can appeal the illegal substitution any time until the end of the game, before the umps leave the field, or until the other team corrects their mistake. All other play that occurred with the illegal substitution prior to the appeal is legal and stands. NOTE: I have coached in codes where the umpire corrects the mistake at the end of the inning, if they notice it (the common scenario that can come up is a team subs their pitcher mid-inning and in all the activity actually forgets to formally tell the umpire - I've seen codes where the ump corrects this at end of inning) There are a bunch of different ways this can happen on offense, that could lead to different scenarios around people being called out, or just being subbed, but the common factor is the unannounced sub is removed from the game.
  7. beerguy55

    HBP Strike 3 again

    If you'd be willing to give him a strike in the new NCAA rules you should be willing to give him a ball (ie. keep him at the plate) in the current FED rules.
  8. beerguy55

    HBP Strike 3 again

    Maybe I'm wrong but I was suspecting that the new rule, and the new emphasis, was a factor in these calls - and that umpires may be a little more sensitive to it, or at least alert. That is, my suspicion is that last year those two players would have just got their base...they wouldn't have even been given a "ball" call. But maybe I'm overreacting and am seeing just a small sample of the big picture.
  9. beerguy55

    HBP Strike 3 again

    This is the part I don't like. If the batter genuinely just braces for impact it could be misinterpreted as a move into the pitch. Now, in the past where I've seen umpires make this determination (or mistake, if you will) at least the batter is getting a "ball" - sure, they're not getting their base, but at least they're not further penalized. Now, the risk in your risk/reward scenario is involuntarily. It's one thing to intentionally enter a risk/reward scenario - to intentionally risk the strike in hopes of getting the base. It's another thing to be put into that scenario by an involuntary reaction that occurs in about a quarter of a second. Now you're risk/reward lies on what an ump sees, or thinks he sees...not what you actually did, or intended. I understand the purpose of the rule, the reasoning behind it, and am mostly on board with it...my only concern is on the judgment side of the equation - I understand there will be subtleties that an experienced umpire will see that I won't. I'll ask you to understand that as a player who competed at this skill level, I've got a pretty good idea what can and can't be done at the plate. In the end, I want it bigger than what's in this video. Having said that, kudos to the umpire for coming up big, definitive and certain on his call. I think there was one posted here a couple of weeks ago that was more in line with what I'm looking for. Not necessarily blatantly obvious in real time...but certainly easier to defend.
  10. beerguy55

    Pitched Ball in the Dirt

    There is a bit of a myth out there that a pitch that bounces before it hits the batter is not a HBP - it's only a myth, as has been explained by the others.
  11. beerguy55

    Dp/Flex lineup

    Based on DP/Flex terminology and female I'm going with softball (to those who disagree, you know who you are, yes, I know there are female baseball players) Well, if your pitcher is hitting she's not the DP. The DP is the person who is only hitting. The Flex is the person who is only defending. But, you can use the DP as a position, so it would go something like this. Alice - 2 Brittany - 5 Clarice -4 Dorothy - 1 Edna - 3 Francine - 6 Gilda - 7 Harriet - 8 Iris - DP Justine - FLEX - 9 Kelsey - bench Linda - bench Then, you could, for example, put Kelsey in to pitch, in place of your nine hitter, and then Dorothy becomes an Offensive Player Only, so it looks like this: Alice - 2 Brittany - 5 Clarice -4 Dorothy - OPO (softball decided to rename this to Offensive Player Only for reasons only known to them - I think just to show that the original DP has changed) Edna - 3 Francine - 6 Gilda - 7 Harriet - 8 Kelsey - 1 Justine - FLEX - 9 Linda - bench Iris - bench (can re-enter for Kelsey if necessary)
  12. beerguy55

    HBP Strike 3 again

    I''m good with the rule, don't get me wrong. (at least with the auto-strike part of the rule) I just don't like the judgment call in this particular situation. If the kids are now as good as you say at disguising their intent then making this call is nothing more than a coin flip...maybe even a "reputation" call, rather than what you actually witnessed. I didn't see anything in this sequence to determine the kid moved into the pitch. So, if he disguised it that well, then now I'm either guessing, or seeing what I want to see to justify the call. ie. lack of evidence is evidence of guilt. Now, the part I don't know if this kid has a long-standing reputation for getting hit by pitches.
  13. beerguy55

    HBP Strike 3 again

    NFW. I hate this call. I want it to be a lot more obvious. This looks like bracing for impact, not attempting impact. He didn't move his leg into the ball - he's in the midst of a natural weight transfer. It's also difficult for a batter to conceptualize the pitch hitting his back leg, back arm, back shoulder (I had my back collar bone broken by a pitch) in realtime - they're focusing on protecting the part of their body closest to the pitcher. Anything to do with the back half of the body comes as as surprise. In real time at full speed this is not only incredibly difficult to pull off intentionally - moving your back leg to get hit by a curve ball - the vast majority of players will do everything humanly possible to NOT get hit on the knee or thigh.
  14. beerguy55

    Fair or foul ball

    And the runner better hope the ball was foul. (except in softball)
  15. beerguy55

    Multiple appeals

    You could have three, though technically it's only one. Each supersedes the other. There are never more than three outs in an inning - the so called fourth out (and fifth and sixth) simply replace the previous "third" out to create a new third out - the scorebook is adjusted accordingly. Stats? The one scenario I can think of is a check swing strike three where R1 is caught stealing for the third out. If Batter is a really good hitter you might appeal to get the strikeout. And this is indeed allowed. If he's a really weak hitter you'll let it go and have him start the next inning. It's not the '"according to hoyle" advantageous fourth out outlined in the rules, though. But the same principle - replacing one third out with a different third out, but not to save a run. As far as the "traditional" advantageous out involving missed bases or leaving early - outside of some kind of statistic reason (eg. get the third out on a runner going from first to third - then appeal to first that batter missed first base to turn his hit into an out) I can't think of why one would want to - but whether or not it's allowed would be an interesting discussion.
  16. beerguy55


    Well, there's no reason to tag him if he hasn't reached second base yet. Unless you could rule he ran past second base...and even then, at least in OBR, it has been ruled that the run still counts (ie. R3 gets home on a bases loaded walk...he just has to touch it - even if an overzealous R1 overruns second and is tagged before R3 scores)
  17. beerguy55

    Cup + ball = ??

    I was thinking more like this
  18. beerguy55

    Multiple appeals

    If everything happens as part of the same live ball play it doesn't matter - all the appeals are legal. Even if this went to a dead ball before either appeal was made the pitcher could appeal to both bases in subsequent actions. The appeal itself is not considered a play so the "before a play or pitch" rule doesn't apply.
  19. beerguy55

    Ejecting Fans

    I thought I was pretty clear in my criteria. A fan who is clearly impacting or interfering with the game, or your ability to manage it. Is the standard higher, yes? I'm not talking about simple heckling...I'm talking about extreme abuse, or something that is impacting the game. And you can continue to live by "not my job" and "someone else's problem". Of course, what you have really done is engage dilemma tactic/fallacies in a few categories - namely Straw Man, Slippery Slope, False Dichotomy - or a hybrid of those - in arguing we WANT to eject everyone outside the fence, willy nilly. That is because your position is in the absolute, in that you would eject NOBODY outside the fence. So feel you must argue to the other extreme. So, you make an effort of demonstrating absurdity by being absurd, when, in reality, you know your absolute position is wrong, but, in suffering the human condition, you can't admit it. The fact is, there is a line, and you know there is. It may be in a different place than other people, but it's there. Because no reasonable human would not have that line. And, if your true position is that there is no line someone could cross, then you're exhibit A to what is wrong with people. And now that the debate has descended beyond tactical fallacies, including Ad Hominen, by myself, the debate only has one more place to go. Everyone knows a good debate isn't truly over until someone compares someone else to Hitler. Any volunteers?
  20. beerguy55

    Ejecting Fans

    You're telling me you don't have the jurisdiction to suspend a game until a fan, who is interfering with the game from outside the fence lines, is removed, or otherwise leaves? That if, for example, every time a ball is hit into play a fan throws a baseball he has in his pockets into the field (or perhaps blows an airhorn every pitch)...that, after the second time you aren't going to stop the game until someone removes the fan from the premises? Or, are you really going to keep playing the game and enforce a fan interference ruling every play? Hoping eventually someone does something about it? Come on - it's just not practical Your argument is an ultimate shirk of responsibility. One of your primary goals is to maintain the integrity of the game. If something, even if it is in the stands, is impacting the integrity of the game you are duty bound to do something about it....even if it means suspending the game until the problem is resolved, however long that takes. And I don't care if you actually tell the fan he is ejected, or call over a facility manager and TELL, not ask, him to remove the fan, YOU are the primary influence behind that, and YOU have the power to ensure it gets done, by ensuring the game does not continue until the task is complete. Even if you discuss with the facility guy and compromise/agree to give the fan one more chance, that power lies with you and you alone. As long as you can reasonably defend your assessment that the fan was impacting the game, no right minded assignor/director/president/committee/supervisor will admonish your ruling. Give me a break. You don't eject a fan from the field, you remove him from the field. You eject him from the facility. And you probably eject him from the facility because he ran onto the field, so then the same principle applies. Once the fan is off the field and out of the way of the players you are still able to have him removed from the facility - to ensure he doesn't do it again. Yes, you're likely depending on someone else to physically remove the fan from the area. You're not continuing the game until the fan has left...not just the field, but the stands and is on his way to, or in, the parking lot. Well, a fan can interfere with the game without physically entering the field, and you have the same capability to remove him, for the same reasons.
  21. beerguy55

    Ejecting Fans

    If something outside the fences is impacting the game inside the fence, or your ability to manage that game, you have the authority to do something about it. That authority may manifest itself in a number of different ways but to say it doesn't exist is fallacious.
  22. beerguy55

    Ejecting Fans

    I've only seen it a handful of times in 30+ years of playing and coaching, but I think it should be "a thing" more often - that is, I've seen a LOT of cases where unruly fans SHOULD have been tossed, but nothing was done about it - and most of the time the end result is some poor kid on the field is being embarrassed to death by their idiot parent....at the same time some umpire (or sometimes coach) is being verbally abused. And you wonder why it's so hard to find, and keep, good umpires. And why it's so hard to find amateur coaches who aren't also a father of some player on the team. Umpires should have the ability, and the support to go with it, to hold a game until an unruly fan is removed.
  23. beerguy55

    Bunting infraction

    My experience, in fastpitch, where the running slap is very common, is the umps kick the call the other way more often - they call it far more often than it really occurs - they're, in effect, guessing, based on the movement of the batter that they "must be" out of the box by now. I think it's driven by a combination of the tendency to want to do "something" and past experience where they probably did miss a borderline call, for the reasons mentioned above.
  24. beerguy55

    Ejecting Fans

    We may be having a heated agreement here, but I want to clarify - I'm talking about the scenario where the coach is NOT dealing with it, and isn't going to deal with it until you tell him to. (or the facility manager, the tournament director, the POTUS, or whomever is in charge). If no one else is dealing with it, and you determine it needs to be dealt with, you're part of it...even it's to delegate the task - and if the task isn't being done, you then have a decision, and the power, to do something about it - whether it's pausing the game, ejections, forfeits, whatever. So, at that point, the differentiation between who ejected the fan is purely semantical. If someone takes care of it without you raising a finger or saying a word, fantastic, that's utopia...but you know that doesn't always happen.
  25. beerguy55

    Mic'd up

    I'm pretty sure it's up to three now!!!