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Senor Azul

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Everything posted by Senor Azul

  1. Senor Azul

    Pitcher goes to his mouth and into the glove

    Which rule set, Mr. Double Up? Each code handles this issue differently. Here are a couple of case book plays to illustrate the FED rule 6-2-1e: 2018 6.2.1 Situation A: With no runners on base, F1 places his pitching hand on his mouth and distinctly wipes off his pitching hand prior to touching the ball. (a) while not touching the pitcher’s plate, (b) while touching the pitcher’s plate. Ruling: (a) Legal; (b) Illegal, and a ball shall be awarded to the batter’s count. 2018 6.2.1 Situation B: With R1, F1 places his pitching hand on his mouth and distinctly wipes off his pitching hand prior to touching the ball (a) while not touching the pitcher’s plate or (b) while touching the pitcher’s plate in the set position. Ruling: Legal in (a). In (b), the pitcher has balked and R1 is awarded second base. (6-1-3)
  2. Mr. beerguy55, your vision of the future is eerily similar to the original purpose of the rule. From the book The Official Rules of Baseball Illustrated by David Nemec— “Since no team in its right mind would station its players anywhere but in fair territory nowadays, Rule 5.02 on the surface might seem superfluous. The rule was put in partly to keep any team or player from making a travesty of the game. Rube Waddell reputedly would call all his infielders and outfielders to the sidelines sometimes in exhibition games and then strike out the side while working with just his catcher. No one cared to see a pitcher try this in a regular game. “There was a time, however, when players not only could legally be stationed in foul territory but it behooved them to play there. In 1876, the National League’s first season of operation, it was still a rule that any batted ball that struck earth initially in fair territory was fair regardless of where it ended up. Many players mastered the fair-foul hit, which involved chopping down on the ball with their bats in such a way that it hit in front of the plate and then immediately spun off into foul territory. To protect against these batsmen, teams were compelled to position their first and third baseman outside the foul-line boundaries.”
  3. Senor Azul

    Bunt to Chop Swing

    Apparently, there has been at least one attempt to ban slash bunting by Little League before. Here’s one such attempt reported on by the Little League Insider blog dated April 8, 2014. The three biggest ones failed. There were proposals to remove any pitcher who hit three batters in a game from the mound. That motion failed. There was another vote to eliminate "slashing" or fake bunting and swinging away. That motion also failed. Some people are going to be upset about slashing. They think it shouldn't be allowed. I understand they're kids, but it's still baseball. If you're going to crash hard on the show of bunt, you're gonna have the possibility of being beat. Bunting is already going by the wayside. This would make it even harder. They made a good call.
  4. Senor Azul

    Defensive Conference for a sub

    Mr. Jimurray, I feel sheepish, oh so sheepish. I read your post and thought I understood it but still failed to take into account your mentioning the clarification of the editorial change the NCAA made in rule 6-5. I have to agree with you that there seems to be a conflict but I do not know how to reconcile it. The funny thing is the NCAA does not seem to see anything wrong as evidenced by their rule changes for 2019-20. They are still tinkering with the same rule about conferences but no clarification was added-- 2019 NCAA rule change to 6-5f To allow six (6) defensive conferences per game for a regulation game. A maximum of three (3) of these defensive conferences may include a coach. Rationale--To improve pace of play by limiting the number of defensive conferences initiated by defensive players (such as the catcher or infielders) to three (3) beyond the three (3) visits the coach is currently permitted to make. 2019 NCAA rule change Delete 6.5f.4 To charge an offensive conference if the batter runner or runners leave their position during a defensive conference. Rationale-- To decrease the number of unnecessary delays during breaks in the game and allow for consistency in charging offensive and defensive conferences.
  5. Senor Azul

    Defensive Conference for a sub

    As the noted philosopher Ynigo Montoya would say, “I don’t think that rule means what you think it means.” Here’s the rule from the beginning and when it is read in toto I think you will find there is no conflict. 2017-18 NCAA rule 6-5 Dead Ball—Play Suspended SECTION 5. Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when: e. A player or coach requests time for a substitution, a charged offensive or defensive conference, for equipment changes, or for similar cause. I take that to mean umpires are directed to call time (to suspend play) when there is a substitution; when there is a charged conference; or for similar cause. The following rule you cite (6-5f-5) just tells us that a substitution is not a charged conference even though play is suspended (time is out).
  6. Here’s the NCAA rule on this subject-- 2017-18 NCAA rule 5-4 Positions of the Defensive Team SECTION 4. At the start of or during a game, all players of the defensive team except the catcher must be in fair territory when the ball is put in play. Being in fair territory means that a defensive player must have at least one foot placed in fair territory. PENALTY—It is an illegal pitch if no one is on base and a balk if a runner(s) is on base. c. Other than the pitcher and catcher, all other fielders may position themselves anywhere in fair territory. PENALTY for c.—The play, if it benefits the defense, shall be nullified. If it is an appeal play, all fielders, other than the catcher, must be in fair territory to start an appeal play after “Time” has been called. If a fielder (other than the catcher) is in foul territory, the umpire should not put the ball in play. If the umpire inadvertently does so, there is no penalty (this is not a balk), nor does the defense lose its chance to appeal on the same runner once the ball is properly put back into play. A fielder may go into foul territory to back up an appeal play after the ball has been put into play.
  7. The 2015 MLBUM has just 66 interpretations which come nowhere near answering all the possible plays that can happen on a baseball diamond. The 2016 BRD has over 400 interpretations and it still isn’t enough to answer many questions posed on this website alone. Simple arithmetic tells us that the MLBUM cannot be the only source of help. In addition to Hunter Wendelstedt, the 2016 BRD lists the following as sources for official interpretations— Barney Deary, Mike Fitzpatrick, Cris Jones, Tom Lepperd, the PBUC and the MLBUM. By the way, Jim Evans is listed as Authoritative Opinion. He was downgraded by the BRD to that status because he no longer trains professional umpires and his manual is now hopelessly out-of-date (published in 1991).
  8. Thank you, Mr. johnpatrick, for your response. I completely agree with your take on the PBUC/MiLBUM and the MLBUM. Frankly, I have never had much use for the MLBUM as I find it does not cover many unusual plays at all. And as you say the PBUC/MiLBUM is more extensive and I find therefore it is more helpful. But I do disagree with you on sources of interpretations for the MLB. Here’s a quote from the Acknowledgments of the 2016 Baseball Rule Differences by Carl Childress— “I want to thank particularly Major League Umpire Hunter Wendelstedt of the Wendelstedt Umpire School for making available to the BRD more than 400 official interpretations.” And here’s a quote from the Preface of Mr. Wendelstedt’s rules interpretation manual (2013 edition)— “Whenever possible, the interpretations mentioned are officially recognized by the umpires and supervisors of both the Minor and Major Leagues.” If Mr. Wendelstedt’s interpretations are not official as you say, he has Carl Childress fooled, he has Rich Marazzi fooled, and he has Gil Imber of Close Call Sports fooled. From a legal standpoint, why would he allow his name to be associated with all these printed interpretations if they were, indeed, not official?
  9. As Mr. beerguy55 posted, the penalty in FED is an illegal pitch. But with runners on that becomes a balk-- 2018 NFHS rule 1-1 ART. 4 . . . At the time of the pitch, all fielders shall be on fair ground except the catcher who shall be in the catcher's box. A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground. PENALTY: Illegal pitch. (2-18) 2018 NFHS rule 2 SECTION 18 ILLEGAL PITCH An illegal pitch is an illegal act committed by the pitcher with no runner on base, which results in a ball being awarded the batter. When an illegal pitch occurs with a runner, or runners, on base, it is ruled a balk.
  10. To be precise, the PBUC manual no longer exists—it became the Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (not sure when, I think 2015). As the title suggests, the MiLBUM is the minor league version of the MLBUM. The 2014 PBUC says the following in its Foreword: “This publication contains interpretations, clarifications, general instructions and rulings endorsed by Minor League Baseball and the Professional Baseball Umpire Corporation. It is provided as a supplement to the Official Baseball Rules which govern all games in Minor League Baseball.” As for the MLBUM, I have the 2015 edition. It has just 66 interpretations in its 85 pages. Are you saying that is the only source of interpretations for the MLB?
  11. I posted these interpretations in July of this year in the Ask the Umpire forum-- OBR Official Interpretation: PBUC: There is no penalty for a first baseman who is not complying with the rule other than to instruct him to do so. Umpires should do that only when the infraction is brought to their attention. If a player, after being so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection. Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: Umpires discover a fielder was in foul territory during play: (1) If they can determine when the fielder left fair territory, they nullify all pitches and plays after that time. (2) If they cannot make that determination, they shall nullify just the pitch or the play occurring immediately before the discovery that he was not in fair territory. Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: When a fielder is not in fair territory: PENALTY: Any play is nullified.
  12. In July 2013 the Lansing Lugnuts had apparently won a game with a walk-off single up the middle. Unfortunately, their runner at first base did not run to second base. Instead he turned into the infield as Mr. Jimurray imagines in his play. Meanwhile, the center fielder had scooped up the ball and thrown it to second base. The infielder stood on the bag and tried to attract the attention of an umpire. Eventually the runner was ruled out on a force thus negating the winning run. Here’s a link to video of the play for your viewing pleasure-- https://deadspin.com/minor-leaguer-hits-walk-off-single-his-team-loses-game-656822487
  13. Mr. noumpere, I disagree with your answer of “c” for NCAA. Here’s how the 2016 BRD summarizes the relevant NCAA rule—“The NCAA rule requires that the runner attempt to correct his error. He must be returning to his base at or about TOT. That is not relevant in FED or OBR play.” And here is the actual NCAA rule-- 2017-18 NCAA rule 8-6 When Runners Are Out on Appeals a. A runner shall be called out on specific appeals that occur as a result of a base running error when… Note 2 When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or the one just left if the runner has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base. Note 3 If the runner is attempting to return to his original base after a fly ball that is caught and the ball is thrown out of play, the runner may retouch and the award is made from his original base. So, at the very least, Mr. maven’s answer of “none of the above” is correct under FED and NCAA rules. Because of a previous misunderstanding, I want to make it abundantly clear—I am agreeing with you, Mr. maven.
  14. Senor Azul


    2017 USSSA rule 7.02.D.1(c) If a team uses a continuous line-up, all players other than the nine (9) defensive position players are Extra Hitters and may move freely in defensive positions with the exception of the pitching position. Any player(s) arriving after the game has begun, shall be added to the bottom of the batting line-up. When using the continuous lineup and a player has to leave the game for any reason, that position in the line-up becomes an out when that at bat comes around.
  15. Senor Azul


    2018 NFHS rule 4 SECTION 4 FORFEITED GAME ART. 1 . . . A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team: f. is unable to provide at least nine players to start the game or cannot provide eight players to finish the game; or NOTES: 1. An out will be called each time that spot in the batting order comes to bat. If the offensive player must be substituted for after reaching base, the most recent batter not on base is allowed to run for that player. 2. A team playing with fewer than nine players may return to nine players. 2018 NFHS rule 7- SECTION 4 BATTER IS OUT ART. 1 . . . A batter is also out as in above penalty or when: g. a team playing with one less than the starting number and that turn to bat is reached;
  16. Senor Azul

    Tagging up on caught fly ball

    2018 OBR rule 5.06 Running the Bases (b) Advancing Bases (1) In advancing, a runner shall touch first, second, third and home base in order. If forced to return, he shall retouch all bases in reverse order, unless the ball is dead under any provision of Rule 5.06(c). In such cases, the runner may go directly to his original base. 2018 OBR rule 5.09 (b) Retiring a Runner Any runner is out when: (5) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play; A RETOUCH is the act of a runner in returning to a base as legally required.
  17. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.50, p. 67-68): The “next base” or “base beyond” refers to the position of the runner at the time the ball goes out of play. Play 5: Runners on first and second, one out. Batter hits a deep fly ball that is caught by the right fielder. The runner from second is running when the ball is hit, does not tag up, and proceeds to touch and round third base. After the runner from second has rounded third base, the right fielder throws behind the runner from first, who is returning to first base. The fielder’s throw is wild and goes out of play. The umpires call “Time” and award the runners home and third. When the umpires call “Time” the runner from second is between third and home, and the runner from first is between first and second. At this point the manager yells to the runner from second (who is between third and home) to go back and tag up at second base. Is this permissible, or is the runner considered a “base beyond” the base he left too soon? Ruling 5: It is permissible for the runner to return to second base while the ball is dead. When the ball went out of play the runner originally on second base was past third (between third and home). The runner’s “next base” is therefore home. While the ball is dead he may return to second base and retouch at any time prior to touching home plate. However, if the runner advances to and touches home while the ball is dead, he may not return. The exact same text can be found in the 2014 PBUC manual also.
  18. We have discussed this issue at least twice—once fairly recently (July 2, 2018) and once in 2015. The more recent thread is titled “second ball on field…what’s the call?” and it is currently located on page 8 of the Ask the Umpire forum. Here’s one of my posts from that thread— In an MLB game played on August 5, 2014, between the Reds and Indians, there was a play involving an extra ball on the field—the umpires kept the ball live: With none out and two on (R1, R3), B1 hit a double to F9, who threw to F4 to F6 as a ball from the defensive bullpen flew onto the field near F4. F6 threw to F5 as R1 dove back to third and was tagged out. OBR Rule 5.01(b) states that after the umpire calls "Play" and until the umpire calls "Time," or until for legal cause (e.g., hit batsman, umpire or offensive interference, foul ball, etc.), the ball is alive. Rule 5.12 lists several additional opportunities to call "Time," including weather/darkness, light failure, an accident, mound visit, examination of baseball, fielder falls out of play, and the umpire orders a person removed. Rule 5.12(b)(8) states, "Except in the cases stated in paragraphs (2) and (3)(A) of this rule, no umpire shall call 'Time' while a play is in progress." According to these rules, the umpire should not kill the ball simply because an extra ball flies onto the field. The circumstance of an extra ball on the field is not listed as an opportunity to stop play.
  19. Senor Azul

    MLB pitcher "cheat sheet"

    The use of crib (cheat) sheets got a lot of attention recently but it turns out that it wasn’t an entirely new situation. An example can be traced back to 1988 when one of the best pitchers of the decade, Orel Hershiser, used an index card as a scouting report and carried it with him onto the field in the World Series. The following is taken from an article written by Bill Shaikin on September 3, 2018, for the LA Times: Hershiser was preparing for the game two start in the 1988 WS. “Gibby’s home run was so exciting, I forgot to take the game tape home,” Orel Hershiser said. “So I couldn’t do the scouting and memorize it through the evening.” Hershiser showed up early the next day, watched the video and took notes. He despaired of memorizing his notes so quickly, and he was determined not to make a mistake in the World Series. So he scribbled a scouting report on an index card, tucked it into his pocket, and alerted the umpires. “I remember saying to them, when I reach into my pocket, this is what I’m getting,” Hershiser said. “And I showed them the card. It wasn’t an emery board, or anything else that people have been caught with.”
  20. Senor Azul

    Jim Evans School

    Perhaps, Mr. Thunderheads, our guest meant clinic instead of school. Even though you are correct that Mr. Evans' umpire academy no longer exists he still does clinics. In fact, Jim Evans just had a clinic in San Diego a couple of weeks ago. I have never been fortunate enough to attend one of his clinics but I think some of our contributors have. They could help our guest by sharing their experiences.
  21. Senor Azul

    Force out rule

    Authoritative Opinion: Jim Evans: In establishing the validity of secure possession at the time of a tag, the umpire should determine that the player held the ball long enough and did not juggle the ball or momentarily lose possession before gaining full control and touching the runner. Unlike a catch, a legal tag is based on the status of the ball at the time the runner or base is touched and not on the final proof of possession. (JEA/ 2:40) OBR only. Tag of a base. The batter hits a ground ball to the first baseman. He fields it to the covering pitcher. The pitcher has the ball securely in his glove and steps on the base as BR runs into his back, knocking him down. When he hits the ground, the ball pops out of his glove. Ruling: Successful tag and BR is out. The tag of the base was proved the moment that it was touched and the momentum of the tagging action ended. BR caused the ball to be knocked out after the tag had already been proved.
  22. Senor Azul

    Runner intentional interference

    From the 2016 BRD (section 343, p. 226): R2, R3. The suicide squeeze is on. B1 bunts a pop-up toward short, but before the fielder can make the play, R2 bumps him, and the ball falls to the ground. BR advances to first, and R3 goes home. The umpire is convinced that, following the catch, F6 had an easy toss to third for a double play on R3. Ruling: In FED, R3 and R2 are out. BR gets first. In NCAA/OBR, R2 and BR are out and R3 return to third. But there is a very high standard—the FED umpire must believe the defense could have completed the double play had there been no interference. If he does not, he may not call out two players. (8-4-1h, 8-4-2g)
  23. Senor Azul

    Balk for taking glove off with ball inside

    When the pitcher intentionally touches (engages) the pitching rubber with his pivot foot, he is, by rule, a pitcher; when his feet are not engaged to the rubber, he is simply another of nine fielders. This is important because the special rules for pitchers only apply when he is engaged to the rubber and "technically" a pitcher. When the pitcher disengages, these restrictions no longer apply. Also note, he must have the ball in hand or glove to engage the rubber (or straddle it), or he has balked. In other words, it's a balk if the pitcher engages or straddles the rubber without the ball in hand or glove. Pitchers are normally taught to keep the ball in their hand, but having it in the glove is allowed. If the ball is in their hand, it must be at their side or behind them. So, as our guest Gary said in his scenario, the “pitcher takes glove off with ball inside, puts glove between knees and uses both hands to tuck jersey in pants.” If pitchers must have possession of the ball when they are in-contact with the rubber, does having the ball between your knees meet that requirement? I say no it does not—therefore it’s a balk.
  24. Hey, Mark, under which rule set was your game played? Since you mentioned it was a 12U girls game I am assuming it was softball and not baseball. Once we know which code perhaps we can help you find a rule or an interpretation for that particular rule set. As for baseball, the only code having a rule that even comes close to answering your question would be the NCAA in its rule 6-5c: NCAA Rule 6 Dead Ball—Play Suspended SECTION 5. Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when: c. An unusual circumstance interferes with the normal progress of the game, such as any crowd action, animal, ball, or other object on the field (see 6-4-a PENALTY); 6-4a PENALTY—The ball is dead at the moment of interference and the umpire shall impose such penalties as to nullify the act of interference;
  25. Yes, Mr. vortex2222, there can be interference on the batter-runner in your play. Here’s the applicable rule— 2018 OBR rule 5.09(a)(11) In running the last half of the distance from home base to first base, while the ball is being fielded to first base, he runs outside (to the right of ) the three-foot line, or inside (to the left of ) the foul line, and in the umpire’s judgment in so doing interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base, in which case the ball is dead; except that he may run outside (to the right of ) the three-foot line or inside (to the left of ) the foul line to avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball; And here is a case play found in the 2016 BRD (section 360, p. 240): R3, 1 out. B1 hits to the pitcher, who throws home but not in time for an out. F2 fires to first and hits BR not in the running lane. Ruling: BR is out. Because the defense played on another runner before BR interfered, runners return TOI: The run scores.