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Posts posted by Jimurray

  1. 1 hour ago, Senor Azul said:

    No need to agonize over rule book semantics if you accept the definition of fair ball found in the Jaksa/Roder manual (2017 edition, p. 26):

    “It is a fair ball if any portion of a batted ball…is bounding on or over fair territory when passing any portion of first or third base.”

    And here is another example along the lines of the one Mr. Ives posted—

    “A strike is ruled if the umpire judges that…the batter has not swung at a pitch, but any portion of the baseball has passed, airborne, through any portion of the strike zone.”

    It would be nice if MLB revised the rule to include "any" in the appropriate spots in the fair definition and "all of" in the appropriate spots in the foul definition. But CCS implies that they did not want to go thru a rule change and only clarified a "settled" ball in exactly the opposite way most of us thought it was called, including Jim Evans. What does J-R say about a ball settled on foul territory with some of it, let's say a portion less than half,  over fair territory?

  2. 46 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

    If a ball in flight nicks the foul pole on the foul side it's fair and a HR.  Why treat 3B  (or 1B) any differently?

    That logic works unless you buy into the MLBUM interp. A ball settled a millimeter before touching the bag and touching foul territory but also over fair territory is now foul. If it rolled a millimeter more and touched the bag it becomes fair. 

  3. 29 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

    A FOUL BALL is a batted ball that settles on foul territory between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory, or that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base, or that, while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, or any object foreign to the natural ground.

    A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight.


    By definition, a ball that bounces over third base where half the ball is over the base and half the ball is over foul territory is both a foul and a fair ball.  Further instruction/interpretation/official ruling is/was required to reconcile the discrepancy.

    Or, in reality, it's a "pick'em" for the umpire.


    We all would pick fair if any part of the ball meets the fair definition. MLB muddied the waters with their MLBUM interp of a “settled” ball. 

  4. 5 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

    Which part?

    The OP doesn't specify and we can assume the whole ball caught the bag's front corner on the foul line but you also could assume it was curving and part of the ball caught the corner. That part "is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base." The rest of the ball would "bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory,". 

  5. 3 hours ago, Gil said:

    This edition of Tmac's Teachable Moments is an audio commentary with video of four Replay Review plays that occurred in MLB. First, we see Ben May patiently time an out call on a caught stealing at second base, then 1B Umpire Carlos Torres makes sure a fly ball is caught, James Hoye...

    [[ This is a content summary only. Visit my website for full links, other content, and more! ]]

    View the full article

    How long has the "oven Mitt" been around? Seems a "stretch" what you can wear on your hands although I don't know if batting gloves are legislated. If you are gonna wear it on the bases you should bat with it. I sense an MLB ruling next year.

  6. 5 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

    A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight…

    We all have a fair ball if any part of the ball satisfies the fair ball definition. But part of the OP’s ball might have also satisfied the foul ball definition. We defer to fair when we have a semantic problem in the rules. Except if you accept the current MLBUM interp of a settled ball which does not apply here. 

  7. 54 minutes ago, D- Money said:

    What's the signal (s) and in what order for the plate ump? And the field ump?






































    You must have hit the return button a lot.

    But, if the batter could attempt 1B, one signal would be a point with the slot arm  and a "yes he did" verbal if the PU had an attempt but since you said appeal that didn't happen. The BU would not have a signal in that case and everyone would know what to. So in your case the signal would be an immediate "did he go" with his left arm (MLB umps might use a different arm but they will know what they are doing) pointing to the correct line ump if the PU did not have an attempt from his view.  The BU would then signal yes or no and everyone would know what to do. Sometimes the PU is slow or unsure and at competent levels the BU will give a "yes he did", almost right away if he had an attempt and everyone will know what to do. The actual signals are a left arm point (MLB excluded) by the PU and a safe or out signal by the PU accompanied by verbals if needed.

    What happened in your sit

    • Like 1

  8. 2 hours ago, MadMax said:

    Since I’ve been watching the Brewers very closely these past few weeks (gettin’ nervous Cubs fans?), I spotted three rotations / pushes that should be made integral into our (pro-amateur umpires) work in 4-man.

    Situation A, 0 R on, 0 outs (this is the one where Granderson put it on the edge of Wrigley’s basket, such that it bounced on the edge twice and came back in play, resulting in a triple): U2 stays out and makes ruling regarding HR or not, U3 rotates to 2B, PU rotates to 3B, U1 watches touch of 1B, then releases and rotates to HP. PU at 3B “works the bag” to lineup arriving Runner and throw coming in.

    Situation B, 0 R on, 1 out: potential catch/no catch in CF/RF gap, U2 stays out. U3 rotates to 2B, but U1 watches touch at 1B and stays for potential back pick. BR beats throw to 2B, with U3 “working the bag” on the inside.

    Situation C, R2 & R1, 0 out: fly ball to F7 at the wall, U3 goes out. Catch, with R2 tagging... U2 takes R2 to 3B (R beats throw), while U1 steps inside, preparing to take R1 to 2B if that develops. PU stays Home (due to R2), and this is a Push.

    Bonus Situation!

    R1, 1 Out, 3-2 count, Runner going on pitch: Ball 4, Low, skips off the dirt and is caught by F2. While BR is dropping bat and taking guards off... “Time!” to change out the ball. No waiting until BR gets to 1B, nor until R1 gets to 2B... Time was called immediately

    Wouldn't those be standard in any association? Granted some associations have some members who consider going out as a turn in place.

    Granting time on a walk is not covered in the OBR rules and Wendelstedt's  guidance was followed in this case. Most of us follow his guidance in NCAA and FED even though they have a rule against it. 

  9. 1 hour ago, BT_Blue said:

    R1 may also NOT interfere with a throw to F3 because he is standing on the bag 

    If R1 is retreating from a tag wouldn't that be normal baserunning? Are you saying once he reaches the bag he would be at risk for unintentional interference with a throw? 

  10. 9/11, Toronto - Boston, top 6 with R3, catcher muffs pitch in the dirt and while catcher is chasing it PU, Jim Wolf, getting out of his way kicks ball and calls time, stopping R3 from advancing. R3 was holding until the kick. No protest, no problem, except for next time when you keep ball live.


    • Like 1
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  11. 1 hour ago, ricka56 said:

    For an umpire, nothing. But most know-nothings (Ask the Umpire is a Baseball 101 page for the know-nothings) think that an appeal is when a call is changed after umpires confer. 

    Elaboration. And since this is the page for know-nothings, I will include the definition of the this five syllable word for you

    The OP was umpiring although he might not have been an umpire. Perhaps we should ask him to elaborate on how many guys in blue shirts were at the game and what position he was in when he ruled. And what the other person in blue shirt if there was one, did rule. Then again there have been so many of these time play questions that I might suspect a troll.

  12. On 5/4/2018 at 2:31 PM, Sut'n Blue said:

    As is their wont, the Devil and St.Peter were having an argument.

    The Devil finally says “Enough of this, we’ll settle this on the ball field.”

    St. Peter looks at him and says “What ball field?”

    Satan says “The baseball field. My guys against yours.”

    Peter looks at him incredulously and asks “Are you kidding? I’ve got Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Williams who do you have?

    The Devil responds: “All the umpires.”


    That's not funny.

  13. 3 hours ago, lawump said:

    Brings to mind this quote from a CBUA bulletin: 

    "STOP TALKING FOR NO REASON . . . STOP FRATERNIZING WITH PLAYERS AND COACHES . . . STOP ACKNOWLEDGING FANS . . . STOP TRYING TO BE POPULAR WITH THE PARTICIPANTS . . . Just be businesslike, answer reasonable questions, be approachable when approached properly, etc. . . . BUT, BEYOND THAT PLEASE SHUT UP!!!!! Geez, Fetch, we know this is your pet peeve, but what is the big deal? The big deal is that your ratings are taking a beating from coaches, observers, crew chiefs, NCAA evaluators, etc. You’re not fooling anyone . . . coaches do not want you on the field kissing babies and running for mayor, they want you focused and working hard at your craft. Guys are losing opportunities for more D-I games, conference tourneys and NCAA post season strictly based on focus and professionalism. If you’re too busy talking, you aren’t focused on umpiring. By the way—SHUT UP, or did I already mention that?"

    • Like 2

  14. 23 minutes ago, maineump said:

    Thanks for the insight. We did ask if there was a tag of the runner. Lots of confusion for everyone. The pitcher was confused about how to do the appeal to start it off. 

    From the replay you saw, did the runner leave early? I have not seen any replays yet. The only replays I have seen were on the 2 calls I had reviewed at the plate. That was in the replay room at the series. 

    I don’t think he left early. U2 seemed to be right in line but tv doesn’t stay there. But an amazing lack of appeal knowledge on the part of the team. Most coaches at that level teach how to do it, at least the simple take rubber step off and throw. Right @Rich Ives ?

  15. 2 hours ago, maineump said:

    If I remember correctly. The manager felt that the step off was a balk/illegal pitch. This was while PR was attempting to appeal a runner leaving early. So, after finally figuring out what he was asking for, we got together. Our discussion (as I remember) was about the appeal and if it was proper, we also talked about an illegal pitch, and everyone had a proper step back.

    So bottom line (in our opinion) was - 1. proper step-off - check  2. appeal on runner - we decided that the appeal was improper. He touched the wrong base and did not tag the runner - so safe.

    To the last part - adding a ball? I'm not sure if it would have helped or not - don't remember the count.

    Courtesy of ESPN replay, F1 would have been balked in MLB when he had a slight start stop flinch to come set just before the first step off, then at any level he would have been balked when he reengaged with a live ball and then turned but did not step off. What was not a balk/IP,  which the 3BC wanted, was the last step off when he threw to 3B. That was legal. But I have F5 tagging the runner at 3B which should have been ruled on by U2 who busted inside and appeared to have a great lineup of the catch and tag.

  16. 3 hours ago, maineump said:

    Yes we did attend the classic. Very good show by MLB and LL. We also had our pictures taken with the Phillies, and spent an hour or so with Gerry Davis and his crew. If I remember it was Chris Guccione, Mark Ripperger and Jeremie Rehak, a call up. They were great guys and fun to hang out with. Lots of knowledge in that group. Chris called to innings at 2B in the LL game and got a banger. He sold it and didn't get reviewed. He was all smiles when he came back the locker room.

    Well, there were lots of things going on. Mostly, the manager was trying to tell me what he wanted in Korean (BTW, I don't speak Korean), and it frustrated him until the interpreter got there. If I remember correctly, he wanted to review the play at HP. After that review, Puerto Rico wanted to review 1B. There was also something about a balk - there are no balks in this division. I think that was on a tag-up play, and PR appealed incorrectly. Most of the issues, IMO were language barriers and a very different culture. I think in the end we got it right. It was a lesson in International relations. I hope this answers this part of the question.

    Just to be precise, there are no balks but violations of the LLGB 8.05 in the Major league division is an illegal pitch (ball) with runners on. Very rare to have a violation, but it can happen. What happened? Would a ball added to the count mattered in the game?

  17. 21 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

    Was there any talk about the South Korea batters almost standing on the plate in the championship game?  Once they got behind by 3 runs and the lines were gone, most of them had their front foot no more than an inch from the plate.  I suppose we all deal with it differently, but it should have been addressed.

    Kudos to the Hawaii pitcher for pitching through it and even busting them inside which turned the advantage they were trying to gain into their own disadvantage,

    Why address it at upper levels if the catcher is not complaining and the pitcher is dealing with it effectively? Just call that inside strike. It's a legal swinging position as soon as the ball is on the way.

  18. 5 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

    From the Jaksa/Roder manual—

    A retouch appeal occurs when such appeal is obvious and when action is relaxed or unrelaxed and

    (a) the retouch base is tagged (before the suspect runner’s return), or

    (b) the suspect runner is tagged on another base

    An appeal of a runner’s failure to retouch is only obvious when…

    The runner has clearly failed to retouch, i.e., the runner is at or returning from a considerable distance away from his TOP base when a fly ball is caught…

    One semantic quibble with JR, by rule the  runner has to retouch before the base or the runner (@beerguy55 will not like the possibility of a runner being called out while touching the base) is tagged. Common sense says go with JR.

  19. 2 hours ago, noumpere said:

    I don’t recall that case play nor do I recall Fed being different on this

    I don't know where my memory of this comes from. There is a 2010 interp that calls it the same way as the current caseplay. Maybe I have been led astray by @maven in this and the retired runner interp:D