dumbdumb
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i think i would include the below from the definition of terms section in the mlb rules Definition of Terms ORDINARY EFFORT is the effort that a fielder of average skill at a position in that league or classification of leagues should exhibit on a play, with due consideration given to the condition of the field and weather conditions. (Ordinary Effort) Comment: This standard, called for several times in the Official Scoring Rules (e.g., Rules 9.05(a)(3), 9.05(a) (4), 9.05(a)(6), 9.05(b)(3) (Base Hits); 9.08(b) (Sacrifices); 9.12(a)(1) Comment, 9.12(d)(2) (Errors); and 9.13(a), 9.13(b) (Wild Pitches and Passed Balls)) and in the Official Baseball Rules (e.g., Definitions of Terms, Infield Fly), is an objective standard in regard to any particular fielder. In other words, even if a fielder makes his best effort, if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position in that league would have made in a situation, the Official Scorer should charge that fielder with an error. in the old days i am not so sure the fielder of average skill at a position in that league was in the book so it was more individual to individual an infield fly to Ozzie Smith had a wider interpretation than to other shortstops, since Ozzie had a much wider range than other shortstops. P.S. (added later) think of that atlanta infield fly in the playoffs. if Ozzie was the shortstop, that was a can of corn for Ozzie. nobody would have moved. it was all Ozzie and everyone on the team, ballpark and the umps would know it and signal infield fly, without the 'average fielder' part (much less the weather and field conditions part) that is now defined in ordinary effort.
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HPU too stunned to call "That's an illegal pitch"?
dumbdumb replied to Velho's topic in Professional
some of this out of the ordinary motion stuff started back in the day with Juan Marichal and Luis Tiant and maybe way on back too. believe it was Tiant that use to wiggle his hands coming down into the set, but they said since he continued coming down the whole time till he got to his belt, the wiggle was ok. rulings on sets, putting the hand in the glove (how/when) from the windup have been going on for quit a while and the rulings on them also. -
HPU too stunned to call "That's an illegal pitch"?
dumbdumb replied to Velho's topic in Professional
IMHO which doesn't mean squat, think the last 2 we have seen were balks with runners on and illegal pitches if no one is on. the step off step back on and this double pitch if you ask me. his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch (not pitches, a fake/feint pitch and a real pitch) without interruption or alteration (of one pitch, not 2). let's hope this is like Joe West putting baseball in the jackpot, by saying the pitcher could not use a card, either by interpreting the rule that was as written that way or invoking 9.01c oops i thing it is 8.01c now. and guess what. they did make an immediate ruling/clarification that said he could use the card. they did not wait till the end of the year or the next year. so, if we have not heard, yet, any memo's being sent out on these last 2, they are saying the no calls of an illegal pitch means they were legal. and let's see what happens if runners are on base and they do this. will it be a balk for both or let it go. -
Was it like the Dan Bellino one? https://www.mlb.com/cut4/umpire-dan-bellino-caught-a-mike-dunn-91-mph-fastball-c278618230
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bat flip non ejection and then opposing coach ejected https://www.threads.net/@cjzero/post/C5uoRH8PPff
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dang, we have an umpire shortage. i have seen umpires with great mobility bust their butts/hustle to get into perfect position and they are in perfect position, wait for the play to fully develope and be completed, use great timing, and still kick the (that word that Jimmy Joyce used) out of the call. so for our former military, i give kudos to those who would like to give it a try, either with less mobility or from a wheelchair. let them start from the middle of the infield obviously, and the PU take all fair foul calls on both lines, and maybe take third and home in certain situations. i have also seen umpires with great mobility, who's play calling ability was no better than flipping a coin. matter of fact, they could not call their way out of a wet paper bag, and had they just called the opposite of what they did call, they would have had a near perfect game. And that doesn't mean the greatest umpire ever in the world did not have one of those games too in their career, and probably more than one. so i give the service guys all the kudos they can get and use. would hope they would consider some other sports like volleyball and track and field to officiate. they would all be great at being clock operators and scorebook keepers as paid personel at the professional levels and amateur levels as well. i think some former baseball umpire guy used to do this for a pro team somewhere. and never forget--a thank you to our Military
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i do not think there was ever a rule where the pitcher could take one step back off/disengagee, and then one step back on/engage the rubber, with the 'pivot foot', all in 'one continuous motion', and it not be called a balk, which would be a quick pitch with no runner on base. and in most cases you could not step off the rubber and get right back on without breaking the hands. you may hear, break em, from the ump with preventive umpiring/officiating, at least that is what an old guy said that went to the school years ago. and maybe now the above is legal with rule changes and interpretations over time. hey 'write' to Bill Miller at the MLB office and Whit Merrifield at ( i believe he is with the Philadelphia team now) on the rules committee at mlb and the phillies addressed to Merrifield and get them to change the rule, if this maneuver is really legal.
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so, what are the mechanics of a quick pitch. if if were me and i heard the umpires yell balk by accident, like with runners on, and the pitcher pitches, i am taking the biggest swing ever, unless the pitch is way way out of the zone, heck i might even swing on a bounced pitch if the bounce is good, since it is a free swing situation. unless an audible goes with the quick pitch, and not some arm sticking out stuff that a batter couldn't see, i would hope they yell something so i would know i got that free swing coming. And who was the crew chief for this play above, and where were they on the field to help on this play, if they thought is was/was not a quick pitch. harder to see that little step back from the plate or (second when behind the fielders vs in the infield) so those corner guys can really help on this one). then they had a huddle. mention everyone in the discussion. heck, some say if you have a borderline situation, just call a catch/no catch a no catch and a fair foul/ fair so the play can proceed and then instant replay can catch what it truly was. just like with that time out ,you cannot change it/unring the bell. call out balk on this play (even if there is no verbal mechanic for this), let the batter have his 'free swing' if he wants, and then go undo the situation after a huddle. P.S. so far Angel has not posted a strike score in the 70's or the 60's courtesy of umpscorecards, which has already been done by more than 1 umpire in that range. Nelson had a 68 per cent on strikes a couple years ago that no one jumped on. Let's make sure we post all umpires bad scores/mistakes and plays and not just Angels. those pictures are out there for everyone not just 1 or 2 individuals.
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All 4 umpires have worked at least a regionals and 2 a cws they know exactly what they are doing and how rules are to be enforced and coach says they are wrong. Went to review for both situations involved on field. Rewrite rules if they and instant replay are wrong. Go complain to sec about rules and enforcement and get them changed then. Don't blame umpires for poor rules and interpretations. bleacherreport.com/articles/10115893-video-11-players-ejected-from-georgia
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You guys do know there is some heat technology out there that was shown on a MLB game, may have even been a playoff game, where the ball hit the toe of the batters instep on the shoe but the umps said the batter was not hit. It was either a Pitch that barely touched him or a foul ball hit off his instep. That technology is there but it is not being used. Probably because an over 10 billion dollar industry cannot justify the cost. Sorry I cannot find that old picture that use to be out there.
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And until every subjective or objective call in anything that uses human judgement is zoomed in like a line call in tennis for a 100% objective call to be made for everything, there will still be misses no matter how objectively the rules are written. And just fire anyone every time one is missed so that everyone in the world gets at least one opportunity to be an official and maybe 2 or 3 times in their lifetime.
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and??? i was led to believe by the old guy that went to the umpire school years ago, that the holy grail of umpire songs bar none was
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go read rule 21 very carefully but also remember the commissioner can rule in other ways for the best interests of baseball. pressure was put on Mantle for appearances at casino's years ago. betting on football basketball etc equals no penalty. betting on baseball is where the penalties start other teams--1 year your own team--you get what pete got. there is a sign on all pro teams clubhouse throughout a milb or mlb players career with that rule 21 on gambling to look at every day, including during Pete's era. no excuses
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I have seen umpire interference called on the PU and the BU. Why not the BU this time scroll down https://brobible.com/sports/article/college-baseball-umpire-hit-throw-kentucky-viral-chaos/
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Camp training article from vero beach https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-umpire-camp-held-at-jackie-robinson-training-complex
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Seems like each sets of rules that we use may or may not have different interpretations of that written rule. Seems like years ago L League used OBR interpretation sometimes(or I guess you could say it backwards that OBR used L League interpretation sometimes). So it seems that I have read before somewhere (who knows maybe I dreamed it), that a runner did not have to move off the base, that rule is obvious, or they could be tagged while off, but they did have to make an effort to allow the fielder a chance to make a reasonable attempt to catch/make a play on the ball. Maybe the runner could lean one way or the other (like a fielder leaning over the rail in foul territory) or ducking down on the base so the fielder could catch the ball without the runners upper shoulders and head being in the way. Now could a player on the base actually 'unintentionally' cause the fielder to miss by not leaning far enough, who knows, just so long as the umpire believes he did not 'intentionally' move into the fielder to avoid. But, you could not just do a statue of liberty pose on the base and not make an attempt at all, to get out of the way while standing on the base. Maybe this has changed or never was, or different rule sets allow or disallow. Which leads into plays with the question of could someone be trying to get out of the way to help a fielder but in trying to help, still move into the way causing an 'unintentional' interference and a penalty would still be called for the 'unintentional interference' on a play (maybe plays with the base coaches involved) and not just players on the field as in the OP. And which plays in the rules would this 'unintentional' still be called interference/a penalty, and a penalty enforced and which plays would not be, with no penalty to be called. And just remember a no call is an actual call just like a call is. Isn't judgement a witch sometimes.
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Gee, and i thought is was because black makes everyone look slimmer.
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well here are the fill in's from the 2022 season per a previous CCS post with games worked per retrosheet. Maybe a guess of Riggs, Merzel, Wills if we go by seniority and all have about 350+ fill in games under their belt. So, no telling which one probably has the known Nelson spot right now, or maybe some of the guys who now have 250 or so games under their belt have the new job or jobs. who knows. But Wills did work 143 games (now that stats are in on retrosheet) in 2023 and no one working over 140 fill in games in a season, has not made full time MLBU at some point in more recent times. Nate Tomlinson also worked 148 games this year bringing his career total to 254 games and once again, no umpire working 140 games or more in a season as a fill in has failed to become a MLBU at some point in more recent times. In bold are the, new MLBU, hired full time in 2023. In more recent times since 2010 on, Dan Bellino became full time after only 144 fill in games, David Rackley 170, Malachi Moore 156 and for those who may not remember Chris Guccione worked 1255 games (2000-2008) as a fill in before getting the call, so he is basically a 22-23 year MLB veteran although the record does not fully count the fill in time which started at 106 games his first year, and Rob Drake the same with 1218 fill in games (1999-2009) so basically a 22-23 year veteran. and hoye, who started fill in during 2003 season and worked 734 fill in games is basically a 20 year veteran MLBU although fill in credit does not fully count or only counts towards a maximum of 2 years credit for fill in games worked. Nick Mahrley: 426, Shane Livensparger: 382, Edwin Moscoso: 332, Adam Beck: 253, Nestor Ceja: 253, Junior Valentine: 235, Eric Bacchus 234, Brennan Miller 195, Alex Tosi: 191, Malachi Moore: 156 Jeremy Riggs: 278 + (97 in 2023) = 375 Ryan Wills: 263 + 143 = 406 Dan Merzel: 251 + 126 = 377 John Bacon: 171 + 46 = 217 Charlie Ramos: 144 + 124 = 268 Clint Vondrak: 144 + 132 = 276 Jose Navas: 164 + 23 = 187 Nate Tomlinson: 106 + 148 = 254 Paul Clemons: 93 + 45 = 138 Alex MacKay: 51 + 82 = 133 Randy Rosenberg 59 + 12 = 71 David Arrieta: 58 + 17 = 75 Brock Ballou: 30 + 71 = 101 Lew Williams 37 + 5 = 42 all above have had 2023 games added now from retrosheet 2023 new 2023 below per retrosheet 2023: Tom Hanahan = 72 Edwin Jimenez = 79 Emil Jimenez = 114 Jacob Metz = 52 Derek Thomas = 85 Brian Walsh = 71
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And you thought only umpires went nose to nose. Watch it all and hopefully enjoy.
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https://baseballhall.org/discover/1918-flu-pandemic-didnt-spare-baseball https://baseballhall.org/discover/umpire-unmasked https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/baseball-history/woman-in-blue
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sounds like you need a league where the coaches get that, come to (fill in your own word(s) here) speech, right from the start every year. the best leagues with the person at the top, whether its the td, president, etc and your scheduler/booking agent etc. do not allow any nonsense, especially in today's climate. the people at the top who run things, will not bow to peer pressure from either the pillars of society of the area you are in, or the well connected, nor the one's with deep pockets. those types who try to use their power/verbal, financial etc etc get squashed like a bug for any shenanigans, even those end around moves they will try on you. so, the best bet, is to look for some protection that the NFHS offers most of the time with JV or Varsity sports, or higher NCAA leagues if invited, and you can get a lot of games with them. usually due to the times, they have someone at the sporting events, just in case an incident does happen. a lot of times the coaches are employees of the school district and a bad situation caused by the coach, runs the chance of a bad article in the paper and disciplinary action up to and including termination, and even if not terminated, a less demonstrative coach. then, for any other ball one may want to call, you personally get to scout leagues who have the leadership that accepts no tomfoolery by coaches what-so-ever, and you can then apply to work those leagues, and not the ones where the administrators let coaches run wild, so to speak. Good luck.
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Well, If Anyone Doubts What is Part of the Body
dumbdumb replied to beerguy55's topic in Professional
Would also include HBP on the batting glove in the back pocket or a baggy windbreaker type jacket worn under the shirt in cold weather if that type jacket is allowed as part of a uniform. -
here you go for comparison's. Was deputy sheriff Kelloggs take down better or stadium security in PHL