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Jimurray

Cross up or deke

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T7, Cubs LA, 2 outs, 3-2 count. Contreras sets up way inside, gloves an outside strike with a reach. That's a ball. No problem, according to announcers. But if you recognize a deke catcher setup why not call the pitch. Obviously this ump as well as many of us sometimes do not realize it was a deke. 

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I'm not sure I buy that it was a deke ... the deke I always see at the MLB level on TV and the HS level in person is a catcher setting up outside and scratching the dirt to the inside with his mitt.

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Not buying that deke idea either. Seasoned F2s know that they can fool a PU into balling that pitch with that late a recovery. And if this F2 didn't, he knows now.

Though PU didn't catch this one. I have seen MLB umpires get that strike, but that's a new technology forced adjustment, umpires have had to make (for the better, IMO). F2 should have apologized to (not bitch at) PU for making that pitch very hard to call.

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2 hours ago, ricka56 said:

Not buying that deke idea either. Seasoned F2s know that they can fool a PU into balling that pitch with that late a recovery. And if this F2 didn't, he knows now.

Though PU didn't catch this one. I have seen MLB umpires get that strike, but that's a new technology forced adjustment, umpires have had to make (for the better, IMO). F2 should have apologized to (not bitch at) PU for screwing up that call.

I think if Contreras had kept his mitt in the zone he might've gotten the call, but it seemed like the pitcher missed his spot and Contreras' recovery resulted in him stabbing his mitt just off the plate. 

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21 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I think if Contreras had kept his mitt in the zone he might've gotten the call, but it seemed like the pitcher missed his spot and Contreras' recovery resulted in him stabbing his mitt just off the plate. 

Theoretically true. I don't remember if there were runners on in this sitch, but F2's first responsibility is preventing that fastball from going to the backstop. It'd be unreasonable to expect F2 to put the brakes on that desperate stab and not drag the pitch an inch or two further out. Given a choice between potentially saving a strike call or saving runner advancement, defense should always choose the latter. And they get what they get on the umpire's pitch decision. 

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I've never understood why it would matter if it's a deke or cross up.  The ball entered the strike zone.

I understand the reality, and that reality has created a cottage industry in catcher framing clinics, and scouting umpire tendencies, but there's a difference between being crossed up (as an umpire) by the pitcher missing his spot...and consciously punishing the pitcher for missing his spot even when his miss was a strike....or rewarding a pitcher for hitting his spot, six inches off the plate.

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1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

... but there's a difference between being crossed up (as an umpire) by the pitcher missing his spot...and consciously punishing the pitcher for missing his spot even when his miss was a strike....or rewarding a pitcher for hitting his spot, six inches off the plate.

Umpires that do this are dinosaurs. Technology has rendered these practices obsolete.

Anyone insinuating that that was what PU did here are way off-base (IMO). PU knows that technology knows. The only person that PU would be punishing my intentionally missing that pitch would be himself. 

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4 hours ago, ricka56 said:

 F2 should have apologized to (not bitch at) PU for making that pitch very hard to call.

Watching live I got the feeling Conteras knew he butchered the catch. I don't think he bitched at PU. That batter eventually walked and that was the end of the night for F1. It sexmed to me even during the mound visit Contraries had a look on his face like he knew that ball call was on him. 

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Contreras is a young C. He was a 3B until 2012. Only has about 2 full seasons worth of games behind the plate. He's improved, but is still very much there for his Offense and rifle of an arm, and has a ways to go on the receiving end. He does block balls pretty decently.

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Yes, Contreras is a converted catcher, but he leap-frogged everyone else last year, including Miggy and David Ross, both of whom have rifle arms.  Rivera, Cantana, and even Avila gave him no real competition behind the plate.

Please don't make it sound like he's a work in progress unless you say he's extremely fast along that process.  He's been THE MAN the past full two seasons.

 

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50 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Yes, Contreras is a converted catcher, but he leap-frogged everyone else last year, including Miggy and David Ross, both of whom have rifle arms.  Rivera, Cantana, and even Avila gave him no real competition behind the plate.

Please don't make it sound like he's a work in progress unless you say he's extremely fat along that process.  He's been THE MAN the past full two seasons.

 

Cmon. I'm one of the most knowledgeable and unbiased Cub fans around. I said his issue was in framing and receiving, I said his arm is, in 4 words, phe no me nal. He's one of the best at backpicks and caught stealing (esp when Baez is making the tag!). He's not fat. He's PHAT. 

 

Ross was great at that backpick too, but Contreras' arm and his n'synchness with Rizzo is on a whole nother level. Rivera and Avila can't carry his jockstrap (or Maddon's that he apparently wears to manage) on D or O skills. But he's not an elite framer.

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