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ricka56

BI followed by HC EJ

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Don't know how long this will be available, but this video has in it an umpire very close to me. The to-be-EJ'd HC's daddy recorded/posted this video on the internet. 
https://www.pscp.tv/w/bKfYAzF4a1FEQndnQVJvanp8MVJEeGxtemVRUnJLTFk4QXIRCSeki0YmrYrfK70Y2UQDFOYcKXOYUDMNVujN

Fall ball JV baseball.

5 min mark ... K3, BI 
PU: "That's interference"
3BHC: "No way...Are you serious ?"
PU: "Yes, I am", then enforces R1 out penalty.
PU: stares daggers towards 3BHC for hollering across the field.
3BHC: silent about the call for next 4 minutes until ...

9 min mark ... HC EJ
3BHC wants to know  how close the play at 2B was going to be on the BI play.
PU/BU: "it doesn't matter" (it might, but no sense opening that can of worms here).
3BHC: "You blew the call ... you blew it".
PU: meh ... listening 
3BHC: "That's why they call you blue"
PU: "Your ejected" verbal and non-verbal

 

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A couple mechanics notes.

  1. I agree with BI. We can sell this call a bit, and explain it a bit. When F2's throw fails to retire a runner, "Time! That's INT (point to batter), that's INT! He's out on strikes (point to batter), he's out for the INT (point to runner)!" It's great to get the call and enforcement right, but even better when everyone knows what's going on. These should be loud enough for the video behind HP to pick it up.
  2. If the coach has a question about the ruling, best to address it right now, so that it doesn't fester. He's entitled to ask about a play and express disagreement with my judgment (within limits, obviously), and we save ourselves headaches later by letting him ask and vent a bit now. Merely disagreeing with a call is not intrinsically insulting or disrespectful.
  3. I did not watch the entire video, but jumped to 9 minutes. PU ignores the 3BC (HC?) until he can't anymore. His body language says he's not listening or engaging with the coach. We need to remember that something more than half of our communication is non-verbal: as soon as we become aware of coach wishing to talk, stop, turn, look him in the eye. It might be about something we've put to rest, or it might be something new—we can't assume. If we've already said, "that's enough" about the BI play or something else, then he has a chance to turn around and walk away. If he wants the "last word," he can have it, for all the good it'll do him (provided that the last word is not magic).
  4. This PU looks a bit lazy and disengaged, and the coach starts to get personal because he seems to feel that the PU is ignoring him and being disrespectful. "You blew the call" is borderline—not really personal, and equivalent to "that's wrong"—and "that's why they call you 'blue/blew'" is pretty funny actually. Hadn't heard that one. But we can nip this in the bud after coach expresses his disagreement: "Coach, I hear you, you disagree with the call. I get it. Now, let's get back to baseball."  This gives coach 2 things he needs: acknowledgement, and a respectful opening to withdraw. He might need to get run, in which case he'll keep going, and we can oblige him. But then it's pretty clear that he needs to go, and it's all on him.
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40 minutes ago, maven said:

and "that's why they call you 'blue/blew'" is pretty funny actually. Hadn't heard that one

This is the most austere part of the entire post.

Scary that you find this funny, unique, creative or  even a “new one.”  Now that you’ve heard it, I encourage you to not find it funny anymore, and see it for what it is — a personal insult.

if you don’t eject over it, I have no problem with that. If you have a problem with 14,937 other officials ejecting for it (or at the very least, restricting), I have a huge problem with that.

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As I type this, I've only watched the part of the video at the 5 minute mark (when the BI occurs); I have not watched the 9 minute mark.

This is a call that has to be SOLD.  I think the call is absolutely correct; but PU's body language says "I'm not sure".  This has to be an aggressive sell.  You want everyone in the ballpark to know what you are calling; and they have to know both by your voice AND your body language.  I would only change Maven's suggested language to use as follows: 

I would yell "THAT'S INTERFERENCE!"  immediately upon the interference occurring (well before the play at second base is completed).  I would point aggressively with my right hand at the batter as I started to walk out from behind the plate.  I would keep pointing at the batter until I saw my base umpire make a call at second.  Once he calls "safe", I would then say, "TIME!  THAT'S INTERFERENCE! (again, point at the batter)  THE BATTER IS OUT ON STRIKES!  Then point aggressively and authoritatively at R1 and say, "AND HE'S OUT FOR THE INTERFERENCE!"

The coach is going to think that you are calling a double play against him.  He is going to be mad.  You must be loud and aggressive when calling this in an attempt to convince him you know what you are doing.

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6 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

This is the most austere part of the entire post.

Scary that you find this funny, unique, creative or  even a “new one.”  Now that you’ve heard it, I encourage you to not find it funny anymore, and see it for what it is — a personal insult.

if you don’t eject over it, I have no problem with that. If you have a problem with 14,937 other officials ejecting for it (or at the very least, restricting), I have a huge problem with that.

I personally find it funny.  It is definitely a new one to me.

However, it absolutely deserves an immediate trip to the showers/bus.

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1 minute ago, lawump said:

As I type this, I've only watched the part of the video at the 5 minute mark (when the BI occurs); I have not watched the 9 minute mark.

(I typically read an entire book or watch an entire movie before I review it ... )

The plate ump could have done better in all the ways you both mention, but there was ZERO confusion on what he actually called. The coach knew it.  He just didn’t like it. 

Two magic “Y” words. The coach sounds like a typical young punk JV rat.  If he’s not gonna learn respect or protocol from the school or from the Varsity coach, then he’ll learn it this way. 

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3 hours ago, maven said:

"—and "that's why they call you 'blue/blew'" is pretty funny actually. Hadn't heard that one. 

 

2 hours ago, lawump said:

I personally find it funny.  It is definitely a new one to me.

However, it absolutely deserves an immediate trip to the showers/bus.

If you think that HC's line was funny, you'll love his earlier gem. Swinging strike pitch that goes through the five hole of his F2 untouched and hits the inside of my back foot in flight so squarely that the ball drops right in front of HP... no deflection, I took it all. R3 can't score because ball is right in front of HP. As I am limping around trying to walk it off, this HC says, "It's OK guys, nobody hurt". Nobody, eh ?

That and other less note-worthy dickish behavior ensued, so when he risked closing his comedy act with the "that's why they call you blue" line, I took the opportunity to give him the figurative Gong Show GONG.

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51 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

This is the most austere part of the entire post.

Scary that you find this funny, unique, creative or  even a “new one.”  Now that you’ve heard it, I encourage you to not find it funny anymore, and see it for what it is — a personal insult.

if you don’t eject over it, I have no problem with that. If you have a problem with 14,937 other officials ejecting for it (or at the very least, restricting), I have a huge problem with that.

Lighten up Francis.

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1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Broadcast not found...

You left coast surfer boys need to get out of bed earlier...haw.

Head coach of the school (varsity coach) calls me 10 minutes ago. He's addressed/addressing his fallball coach issue. I told him about the video, he said that he'll take care of that. 5 minutes later, HC's father took down the video. 

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Now that video is gone (nobody can see it anymore). I'll comment about the mechanics comments. While I did verbally and non-verbally indicate BI and (albeit after I hollered back at 3BC) communicated the penalties, I did not communicate it loud enough to be picked up on the behind the backstop video. But everyone on the field and dugouts heard me. I could have been louder, but I really thought that this was a no-brainer BI and not worthy of a lot of fanfare/explanation... but I do understand and appreciate that feed back. BI isn't a common call in a game, and loud communication of the call and penalty enforcement is a good idea and can save you grief from in front of as well as behind the backstop.

I can't make any excuse for my sloppy JV fall-ball (stay loose, blue) plate mechanics...purposely left my A game in the back of the pick-up truck. But then, I can work this Monday...sore foot, but no broken anythings else...it was what it was.

Maybe I could have done something different to save HC from himself before the EJ. Maybe try to nip in he bud his protest of a 4 minutes old call. And I'm sure he took offense to my staring daggers at him after he was hollering his displeasure about the BI call from the 3BC box. Maybe not text book game management from a de-escalation point of view, but I wanted to non-verbally communicate my displeasure at his way of demonstrating his displeasure. Again, not my A game, game management, but when he came back for more between innings, and because of the other crap that went on previously, I just wasn't inclined to save him, and was content to let him eject himself ... it was what it was.  

Thanks again for the feedback.

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31 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

Now that video is gone (nobody can see it anymore). I'll comment about the mechanics comments. While I did verbally and non-verbally indicate BI and (albeit after I hollered back at 3BC) communicated the penalties, I did not communicate it loud enough to be picked up on the behind the backstop video. But everyone on the field and dugouts heard me. I could have been louder, but I really thought that this was a no-brainer BI and not worthy of a lot of fanfare/explanation... but I do understand and appreciate that feed back. BI isn't a common call in a game, and loud communication of the call and penalty enforcement is a good idea and can save you grief from in front of as well as behind the backstop.

I can't make any excuse for my sloppy JV fall-ball (stay loose, blue) plate mechanics...purposely left my A game in the back of the pick-up truck. But then, I can work this Monday...sore foot, but no broken anythings else...it was what it was.

Maybe I could have done something different to save HC from himself before the EJ. Maybe try to nip in he bud his protest of a 4 minutes old call. And I'm sure he took offense to my staring daggers at him after he was hollering his displeasure about the BI call from the 3BC box. Maybe not text book game management from a de-escalation point of view, but I wanted to non-verbally communicate my displeasure at his way of demonstrating his displeasure. Again, not my A game, game management, but when he came back for more between innings, and because of the other crap that went on previously, I just wasn't inclined to save him, and was content to let him eject himself ... it was what it was.  

Thanks again for the feedback.

We could all pick nits about your mechanics, game management, level of effort, etc. etc. etc. 

I don’t consider BI to be an extremely rare or uncommon call. It’s actually an easier call to make in your case because the batter was already out on the strikeout — (no waiting to see the call at 2B).

It was indeed a no-brainer, and you are not obligated to explain loudly enough for the camera’s audio mic to pick it up, and the coach is the one who “blew it.”  Again, only because he didn’t like the call … not because he really doesn’t know the rule.

Young punks like him are doing no favors fostering a culture of good sportsmanship to a team of teens, and he doesn’t get a free pass to personally insult an official.  The “blue/blew” joke is older than the hills.

If this were played strictly by FED Rules, I would have restricted him, and my guess is ejected him 40 seconds later.

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I consider myself approachable on disputed calls. I can be friendly when it is a friendly game, focused and concise with explanations when it is a competitive game, but what I really have trouble with is maintaining a professional demeanor/body language when the HC starts acting stupid. Weakest part of my game management. Keep intending to work on this, but suffereing fools is not my strong suit. I don't bait the stupid ones anymore (so that's an improvement), but I still get that consternated (unprofessional) look on my face, saying little and hoping that he'll eject himself so that we can get back to a quiet baseball game.

Any suggestions other than be better aware of what one projects ? 

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45 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I don’t consider BI to be an extremely rare or uncommon call. It’s actually an easier call to make in your case because the batter was already out on the strikeout — (no waiting to see the call at 2B).

It was indeed a no-brainer, and you are not obligated to explain loudly enough for the camera’s audio mic to pick it up, and the coach is the one who “blew it.”  Again, only because he didn’t like the call … not because he really doesn’t know the rule.

 

I disagree. It is an uncommon call; especially on the amateur level.  Not to pick on @ricka56 (whom I give a lot of credit to for being willing to be analyzed), but his body language conveyed that he was not sure of his call (even if he was 100% sure).  Most coaches don' t know the rules; they're looking to you to convince them that you do know the rules.  You want your voice and body language to convey a "don't f@%k with me, I know what I'm calling."  

There's a reason why at umpire school they teach students (both in the classroom and by demonstration on the field), that you (the umpire) must be loud with your voice and aggressive with your mechanics whenever you call any interference.

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2 hours ago, VolUmp said:

(I typically read an entire book or watch an entire movie before I review it ... )

(Which is why I ethically stated in my post that I was only commenting on a "chapter/scene" in this "book/movie" (that I had only seen the events at the 5 minute mark)).  But thanks for educating me about your standard practices.  I'll keep that in mind in the future.

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2 hours ago, lawump said:

Not to pick on @ricka56 (whom I give a lot of credit to for being willing to be analyzed), but his body language conveyed that he was not sure of his call (even if he was 100% sure).  Most coaches don' t know the rules; they're looking to you to convince them that you do know the rules.  You want your voice and body language to convey a "don't f@%k with me, I know what I'm calling."  

There's a reason why at umpire school they teach students (both in the classroom and by demonstration on the field), that you (the umpire) must be loud with your voice and aggressive with your mechanics whenever you call any interference.

Point taken... the only thing that I was not sure of was whether to deal with 3BC immediately for hollering, "No way...Are  You Serious ?" when I announced BI or whether to finish my proper verbals once the play at 2B was decided. That did throw me off a bit. And I can see where one could evaluate that as it looking like I was unsure of the verbals required here. Lesson learned.

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18 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

Point taken... the only thing that I was not sure of was whether to deal with 3BC immediately for hollering, "No way...Are  You Seriously" when I announced BI or whether to finish my proper verbals once the play at 2B was decided. He did throw me off a bit. I can see where one could evaluate that as being unsure of the verbals required here. Lesson learned.

Do not engage the coach until you have finished your mechanics.  Of course, if the coach says something ejection worthy while your executing your mechanics, finish your mechanics then turn around and toss him.

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2 hours ago, lawump said:

Do not engage the coach until you have finished your mechanics.  Of course, if the coach says something ejection worthy while your executing your mechanics, finish your mechanics then turn around and toss him.

Agreed ... solid advice. But aren't we all glad that I took a second to decide against, "Hey you, (3BC) STFU,  batter, you're out on K3, and runner (R1) you're out on the batter's interference."  I gotta get some positive eval points for that decision at least.  haw

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4 hours ago, ricka56 said:

Maybe I could have done something different to save HC from himself before the EJ.

Just on this part: frankly, I couldn't hear enough in the video to provide much constructive criticism. My (too long, sorry!) comments just used the body language of the clip as an occasion to provide some general ideas for game management for newer umpires or those who feel that their GM is an area for improvement.

Your coach certainly sounds like a douche, and that's strike 1; when he refuses to let an argument go, that's strike 2; and borderline personal crap can be sufficient for an ABS EJ. So I don't really fault you for that, and my general GM comments shouldn't be read as a criticism of the EJ.

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2 hours ago, maven said:

Just on this part: frankly, I couldn't hear enough in the video to provide much constructive criticism. My (too long, sorry!) comments just used the body language of the clip as an occasion to provide some general ideas for game management for newer umpires or those who feel that their GM is an area for improvement.

Your coach certainly sounds like a douche, and that's strike 1; when he refuses to let an argument go, that's strike 2; and borderline personal crap can be sufficient for an ABS EJ. So I don't really fault you for that, and my general GM comments shouldn't be read as a criticism of the EJ.

All good. Evals are supposed to be food for thought. Even though some points might have been off-base, they made me review what actually happened and consider a better way of handling the sitch. Thanks for taking the time to eval. 

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On 10/13/2017 at 12:55 PM, Kevin_K said:

@ricka56...... Location Bearded Clam, MA....when did you move? 

The last straw ... I got this NJ toll tag authority invoice:
Toll : $1
Administrative fee: $30

The fee was for not going through the toll booth. NJ is probably the only state left that makes you go through a toll booth. All the other states have technology to bill by mail (even Taxachussetts) without gouging. Guess Christie wants to keep open the option of staging a political revenge traffic jam. 

MA/NE in the autumn is awesome...then heading to Bearded Clam, FL for the winter... haw 

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On 10/9/2017 at 12:10 PM, lawump said:

But thanks for educating me about your standard practices.

You're quite welcome, Sir Barrister.

On 10/9/2017 at 12:10 PM, lawump said:

I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Please see that you do, Sir Barrister.

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1 hour ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

any other way to see this video?

I tried to capture/copy it, but the internet link did not give me that option and I wasn't IT savvy enough to figure a way to do it before the video link was taken down. I asked the guy that recorded it (the HC's father) for a copy. He declined. Me thinks that the varsity HC (fallball HC's boss) didn't want that video to ever seeing the light of day again. Too bad, there was umpire educational value to it, IMO.

Conversely, the HC in the video is a young guy and the varsity coach had some good things to say about him (how the kids love him because he actually coaches). I wouldn't want my youthful asshole-ishness viewable on the internet forever. Hopefully he learned something ... time will tell.

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