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Guest Roy

Out or safe

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Guest Roy   
Guest Roy

If the catcher is holding the ball and goes to tag a runner at the plate but the runner hurdles him but as he hurdles him his foot hits the catchers helmet!!!  Is the runner safe or out?

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CJK    80

Did he get tagged by the ball, the hand holding the ball, the glove holding the ball, or the glove holding the hand holding the ball?  If he did, he's out on the tag.  If he didn't, he's not out on a tag.  There is no provision for a fielder tagging a runner with his head.

Past that, if the contact with the catcher's head was judged to be intentional/malicious, the runner may be declared out, and possibly ejected.  Also some rule sets prohibit an attempt to jump over a defender in some circumstances, and allow the runner to be declared out for a violation.

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stkjock    272

What rules is the game playing under?

 

some youth rules have a hurdling prohibition where the runner would be out for hurdling the catcher

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noumpere    2,413
3 minutes ago, stkjock said:

some youth rules have a hurdling prohibition where the runner would be out for hurdling the catcher

FED, for one.

Some, allow hurdling, but not diving.  (FED allows hurdling the outstretched arm, or hurdling a fielder on the ground, but not diving).)

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BretMan    89

Some rule sets- for instance, NFHS/high school baseball- prohibit hurdling over a fielder. Most others don't.

the ones that prohibit hurdling treat it as a form of interference. The ball is dead and the runner is called out. But for the ones that don't prohibit it, this is a legal way of avoiding a tag and you simply let the play continue to its natural conclusion.

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ALStripes17    556
Some rule sets- for instance, NFHS/high school baseball- prohibit hurdling over a fielder. Most others don't.
the ones that prohibit hurdling treat it as a form of interference. The ball is dead and the runner is called out. But for the ones that don't prohibit it, this is a legal way of avoiding a tag and you simply let the play continue to its natural conclusion.
In FED the ball is not dead on a hurdling call. The ball is only dead if interference occurs in conjunction with the act which calls for the runner to be out.

Sidenote: hurdling is allowed over a fielder lying on the ground.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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maven    3,888

Depending on whether the contact hindered F2's further play, this might also be INT: in codes where hurdling is illegal, resulting contact that hinders the fielder will also be illegal.

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Jimurray    544
2 hours ago, Stan W. said:

Are you asking about the PA / TX game ending play at the PLWS yesterday?

If so, since PONY uses OBR would the collision rule 6.01(i) [7.13] not allow for hurdling if the catcher has the ball unless no contact is achieved?

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Rich Ives    956
11 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

If so, since PONY uses OBR would the collision rule 6.01(i) [7.13] not allow for hurdling if the catcher has the ball unless no contact is achieved?

Where is the violation? Did he do it order to initiate contact? No. He did it to avoid contact.

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Jimurray    544
29 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Where is the violation? Did he do it order to initiate contact? No. He did it to avoid contact.

The "initiate contact" in the rule would support no violation. But they only contemplate legal contact resulting from a legal foot first or head first slide which would require ground contact before contact with the catcher. Would a failed hurdle be considered illegal?

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Stan W.    543

In yesterday's PLWS play, the PA Catcher caught the throw, went to his knees then dove out to attempt a tag on the legs of the TX runner. The TX runner leapt over the tag and landed squarely on home plate.  But there was no contact with the catcher's helmet.   

It is viewable on ESPN as last nights #1 play and PLWS.com.... 

Edited by Stan W.
clarity

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Jimurray    544
24 minutes ago, Stan W. said:

In yesterday's PLWS play, the PA Catcher caught the throw, went to his knees then dove out to attempt a tag on the legs of the TX runner. The TX runner leapt over the tag and landed squarely on home plate.  But there was no contact with the catcher's helmet.   

It is viewable on ESPN as last nights #1 play and PLWS.com.... 

Off topic: That PU probably has not attended any reputable training or clinics. Mask in right hand and 1BX for play at plate.

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Rich Ives    956
1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

The "initiate contact" in the rule would support no violation. But they only contemplate legal contact resulting from a legal foot first or head first slide which would require ground contact before contact with the catcher. Would a failed hurdle be considered illegal?

You are reading too much into it. 

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C12    4
On 8/15/2017 at 6:08 AM, CJK said:

Did he get tagged by the ball, the hand holding the ball, the glove holding the ball, or the glove holding the hand holding the ball?  If he did, he's out on the tag.  If he didn't, he's not out on a tag.  There is no provision for a fielder tagging a runner with his head.

Past that, if the contact with the catcher's head was judged to be intentional/malicious, the runner may be declared out, and possibly ejected.  Also some rule sets prohibit an attempt to jump over a defender in some circumstances, and allow the runner to be declared out for a violation.

Hijack Alert

How bout this no tag out....

https://www.mlb.com/video/yadi-m-ellis-on-out-at-home/c-31127041?tid=59730222

I'm sure this was discussed when it happened but as a Dodger fan this still bothers me.

 

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