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stkjock    272

you guys are talking about the throw behind Trout at 2nd and no umpire at that base?

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Gfoley4    61
1 hour ago, stkjock said:

you guys are talking about the throw behind Trout at 2nd and no umpire at that base?

yes. If U3 goes out with bases loaded, U2 and U1 "reverse rotate" while PU stays at the plate. 

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maven    3,881

Also called the "push": U1 comes in to pivot and takes the BR into 2B, as U2 takes R1 into 3B.

Triggered with R1&R2 or bases loaded when U3 goes out.

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Stk004    599

I think I remember having the same thought when I watched this at BWW, but I really don't need to watch the Mariners lose again.... and again. And again. 

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On 8/14/2017 at 5:09 PM, maven said:

Also called the "push": U1 comes in to pivot and takes the BR into 2B, as U2 takes R1 into 3B.

Triggered with R1&R2 or bases loaded when U3 goes out.

Also with R1 & R3... R2... R2 & R3..

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noumpere    2,413
9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

What about R3 only?

No.  U2 stays at second, U1 stays at first.

 

There are a couple of different ways to handle it if BR tries for third -- U2 can take him (with U1 filling in behind in case BR tries to return to second), or PU can come up and then U1 rotates home.  Depends on the specific mechanics being used.

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Jimurray    542
2 hours ago, noumpere said:

No.  U2 stays at second, U1 stays at first.

 

There are a couple of different ways to handle it if BR tries for third -- U2 can take him (with U1 filling in behind in case BR tries to return to second), or PU can come up and then U1 rotates home.  Depends on the specific mechanics being used.

There are more than a couple of different ways to handle U3 going out with R3. Which is why the mechanic should be briefed and the rotation signaled. Some mechanics have PU staying home always with RISP. Some have PU cover 3B with two out. But if PU is staying home both U2 and U1 will be coming in and sliding depending on what happens with the ball. U1 might rim instead of coming in.

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CJK    80
Just now, LRZ said:

What does "rim" mean?

Stay on the outside of the diamond, along the "rim" of the grass.

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noumpere    2,413
44 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

There are more than a couple of different ways to handle U3 going out with R3. Which is why the mechanic should be briefed and the rotation signaled. Some mechanics have PU staying home always with RISP. Some have PU cover 3B with two out. But if PU is staying home both U2 and U1 will be coming in and sliding depending on what happens with the ball. U1 might rim instead of coming in.

The two ways you describe are the same two ways I described.

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Jimurray    542
25 minutes ago, noumpere said:

The two ways you describe are the same two ways I described.

I don't think some mechanics do this--- "No.  U2 stays at second, U1 stays at first." With U3 going out U2 would be headed to 3B on a fly ball and U1 would take the BR to 2B if the ball was uncaught. But maybe on a base hit like the OP where U3 went out for fair foul and/or Spec. Int. that would be what would be what would happen. 

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noumpere    2,413
39 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I don't think some mechanics do this--- "No.  U2 stays at second, U1 stays at first." With U3 going out U2 would be headed to 3B on a fly ball and U1 would take the BR to 2B if the ball was uncaught. But maybe on a base hit like the OP where U3 went out for fair foul and/or Spec. Int. that would be what would be what would happen. 

With R3 only and U3 going out (which is the play we are now discussing), U2 goes to second.  He's there for BR on a double or any play at second.  If there's a potential for a play at third, then we have the two options -- U2 takes BR to third and U1 comes behind to cover second, or PU goes to third and U1 goes home (the timing of BU's and PU's movement varies of course -- I don't mean to imply that either only moves when BR commits to third or anything).

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Jimurray    542
11 minutes ago, noumpere said:

With R3 only and U3 going out (which is the play we are now discussing), U2 goes to second.  He's there for BR on a double or any play at second.  If there's a potential for a play at third, then we have the two options -- U2 takes BR to third and U1 comes behind to cover second, or PU goes to third and U1 goes home (the timing of BU's and PU's movement varies of course -- I don't mean to imply that either only moves when BR commits to third or anything).

Isn't U2 at the edge of the grass in LF in order to cover 3B if U3 goes out? As far as I can tell CCA and PBUC have U1 take the BR to 2B if the PU is staying home with an R3.

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12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

There are more than a couple of different ways to handle U3 going out with R3. Which is why the mechanic should be briefed and the rotation signaled. Some mechanics have PU staying home always with RISP. Some have PU cover 3B with two out. But if PU is staying home both U2 and U1 will be coming in and sliding depending on what happens with the ball. U1 might rim instead of coming in.

Not if you use CCA... 

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Jimurray    542
1 hour ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

R3.. and U3 goes out If there is a potential play back into 3rd ... U2 comes in and has plays on R3 or r2

Sorry, I hijacked the thread into R3 only. So there would be no R2 but otherwise the mechanic should be the same.

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Jimurray    542
1 hour ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

Not if you use CCA... 

CCA does not address all the permutations of R3. On a no catch U1 pivots. On a catch U1 does not pivot. But on a fly ball with U3 going out how does U1 know to pivot or not in time to do the right thing?

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noumpere    2,413
18 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Isn't U2 at the edge of the grass in LF in order to cover 3B if U3 goes out? As far as I can tell CCA and PBUC have U1 take the BR to 2B if the PU is staying home with an R3.

Yes -- if the ball is caught.

This might have changed (since I didn't work NCAA ball last year and since I sent my CCA manual off to someone), but:

U2 starts in shallow left (behind F6).  When U3 goes out, U2 comes in, toward second (well, really toward the usual C position, but he can change that based on his read). 

If the ball is caught, he slides toward third for any play back on R3.  (In practice, this won't happen much because if it was a trouble ball, R3 is almost always going to score).  R1 doesn't need to move.

If the ball is not caught, then U2 slides toward second for any play on BR (in practice, this is much like PU's read on a BR going to third -- only really go there if there's a play).  If U2 reads that BR will try for third, U2 heads there.  U1 can "trail" BR to second -- he does this so that if BR commits to third and then changes his mind, U1 can cover the back end of the play.  There is plenty of time to do this once U1 reads that the ball is not caught -- he's not trying to beat BR to second as he would need to do in two-person.

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Jimurray    542
4 hours ago, noumpere said:

Yes -- if the ball is caught.

This might have changed (since I didn't work NCAA ball last year and since I sent my CCA manual off to someone), but:

U2 starts in shallow left (behind F6).  When U3 goes out, U2 comes in, toward second (well, really toward the usual C position, but he can change that based on his read). 

If the ball is caught, he slides toward third for any play back on R3.  (In practice, this won't happen much because if it was a trouble ball, R3 is almost always going to score).  R1 doesn't need to move.

If the ball is not caught, then U2 slides toward second for any play on BR (in practice, this is much like PU's read on a BR going to third -- only really go there if there's a play).  If U2 reads that BR will try for third, U2 heads there.  U1 can "trail" BR to second -- he does this so that if BR commits to third and then changes his mind, U1 can cover the back end of the play.  There is plenty of time to do this once U1 reads that the ball is not caught -- he's not trying to beat BR to second as he would need to do in two-person.

It looks like CCA is different than PBUC/MLBUM. While CCA shows U1 pivoting in on the graphic in the text they show him only responsible for the touch of 1B and, as you say, U2 has the BR at 2B and 3B. They might differ from PBUC/MLBUM because CCA does not require going out on all fly balls while PBUC/MLBUM does.

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