Can you call him out?

[White47]

So if a runner does not avoid contact, but that contact is not malicious can I call home out?

 

I know if it is like an illegal slide I can, but does the same apply standing up. The situation I'm thinking of happened at first base, I definitely felt that he made intentional contact but it didn't appear to be malicious.

 

Would it just just be interference or is there a different rule that would cover it, or just a no call ? (All rule sets please).

 

 

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[JSam21]

It would just be interference... Remember that malicious contact is also "just interference" with an ejection added on. 

[scrounge]

In Fed, you do have 8-4-2c which explicitly mentions an intentional contact out. In over 7 years, I've called this a grand total of once, also at 1B. It was a 10U game with a slow roller to F3. He was just standing there waiting on the runner, not quite in the basepath but not totally out of it either. The batter/runner was just on autopilot, with the 1BC loudly yelling "run through the bag", and he just kept on going - right thru the shoulder of F3, knocking him back a few steps and dislodging the ball. The B/R was a great little kid, no way it was malicious and no way I was kicking him out. He was just on autopilot, like I said. He didn't try to slap the ball away or go after the fielder or even show a callous disregard for the fielder - he just didn't know what else to do, but he didn't try to avoid the fielder either (and had more than ample time to do so if he had any situational awareness). He was just so focused on listening to his 1BC that he just kept on chugging.

It's the one and only time that I thought this rule applied perfectly. I may go my entire remaining career without seeing it again.

[stkjock]

I can say for LL, IIRC, it's "attempt to avoid" so it's your judgement, if there's an attempt and there's still contact, no call, if you believe there's no attempt then then you could call the out.

[maven]

OBR is silent on non-INT contact, except for the collision at HP rule. Many OBR-based amateur codes have added a "slide or attempt to avoid" clause, but even with those the penalty varies: sometimes an out, sometimes a warning and an out for subsequent violations, sometimes other.

FED has a provision, cited by scrounge above, that is rarely invoked because the contact it prohibits almost always is also INT. It fills a gap that FED wants filled, where contact is avoidable but does not hinder anyone. This provision is actually useful for the "chicken wing": when a runner scores without a play and clips F2 with his elbow just to be obnoxious. It's not MC (usually), and it's not INT because F2 is not hindered (and there's no play). If we don't choose to address this with a warning, or if it happens multiple times, we can get an out under 8-4-2c.

To the general question, "is a failure to attempt to avoid contact always INT," the answer is no. It is INT if it satisfies the definition of INT, which requires hindrance (but not contact).

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, stkjock said:

I can say for LL, IIRC, it's "attempt to avoid" so it's your judgement, if there's an attempt and there's still contact, no call, if you believe there's no attempt then then you could call the out.

FWIW in LL the slide rule is "attempt to get around a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make the tag" There is NO "attempt to avoid" in the slide rule.

For interference plays the LL rule is the same as OBR.

[stkjock]

thanks for the added detail @Rich Ives, I don't have the green book in the office

[Specks]

4 hours ago, maven said:

This provision is actually useful for the "chicken wing": when a runner scores without a play and clips F2 with his elbow just to be obnoxious. It's not MC (usually), and it's not INT because F2 is not hindered (and there's no play). If we don't choose to address this with a warning, or if it happens multiple times, we can get an out under 8-4-2c.

8-4-2c only mentions "....in the immediate act of making a play on him; or" as a cause for an out.

I usually just run the player for the "chicken wing", that way nobody feels they have to retaliate.

[Senor Azul]

According to Carl Childress in the 2016 edition of his Baseball Rules Differences (section 348, p. 232), there is an official interpretation concerning malicious contact for the MLB:

“The umpire has the right to eject (a player) from the game if it’s (the contact) blatant, and he’d be automatically out.” [Joe Torre, MLB.com, 2/24/14]

So as it turns out, the OBR is not entirely silent on non-interference contact.

[Senor Azul]

The OP asked for a ruling for all three codes and NCAA was not covered. NCAA actually has a pretty comprehensive collision rule:

Collision Rule

RULE 8 SECTION 7.  The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

a. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who is in clear possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge: If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line with clear possession of the ball, the runner may slide into to make contact with the fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base (plate).

1) The runner must make an actual attempt to reach the base (plate). PENALTY—If the runner attempts to dislodge the ball or initiates an avoidable collision, the runner shall be declared out, even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision.

2) The runner may not attempt to dislodge the ball from the fielder--contact above the waist shall be judged by the umpire as an attempt by the runner to dislodge the ball.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious before the runner touches the base (plate), the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision.

3) The runner must attempt to avoid a collision if he can reach the base without colliding.

PENALTY—If the contact is flagrant or malicious after the runner touches the base (plate), the runner is safe, but is ejected from the contest. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the collision. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner. If the contact occurs after a preceding runner touches home plate, the preceding runner is safe. The ball is immediately dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the contact.