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Guest Todd

live ball or dead ball

Question

baseball runner is attempting to score from third to home. As runner is attempting to touch home plate a player throws ball towards home in an attempt to make a play. The ball strikes the runner and he falls to ground with injury (never touching home plate). The ball goes off of the runners leg. Is this ball still a live ball and can the catcher field this ball and tag the runner out? Does this ball remain live? 

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Under "pure" OBR, play never stops for an injury.  At the levels most of us do, we would stop it only when the player is in imminent danger of further harm --   that almost never in baseball, even at the lower levels.

 

Here's what JEA has on this (emphasis added):

 

Historical Notes: The Official Playing Rules of 1877 admonished the umpire to suspend play "...only for a valid
reason and not trivial causes at the request of any player." By 1879 the umpire was instructed to suspend play
"...only for an accident or injury to himself or a player or on account of rain." For a short period beginning in 1884,
play could not be suspended because of an injury until the ball had been returned to the pitcher standing in his
position.
The basic interpretation used today was instituted in 1920. It affirmed that the umpire should not call "Time"
until, in the judgment of the umpire, no further play was possible. The 1955 amendment added the proviso which
allows a substitute to complete an award of one or more bases for a player incapacitated in a dead ball situation.

Professional Interpretation: Regardless of the extent of an injury, time shall not be called unless the ball has been
returned to the infield and no runners are in jeopardy of being put out.

 

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this is all dependent on how old the players are. Adults? no, play on. Teens? Unless there is clearly an injury, like say blood, then play. Youth, say under 10? err on the side of caution, as safety is number one. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Guest cjk said:

this is all dependent on how old the players are. Adults? no, play on. Teens? Unless there is clearly an injury, like say blood, then play. Youth, say under 10? err on the side of caution, as safety is number one. 

 

Different rule sets may have different criteria, but for High School or anything that plays under those rules, as well as OBR which many leagues play under, the ball remains live. Play only stops once the action ends and the umpire calls time. The reality is, once the player is hurt, the damage is done. Waiting the few additional seconds for the play to end doesn't endanger the player. Plus, it's good for kids to learn to persevere and play despite some pain.

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2 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Different rule sets may have different criteria, but for High School or anything that plays under those rules, as well as OBR which many leagues play under, the ball remains live. Play only stops once the action ends and the umpire calls time. The reality is, once the player is hurt, the damage is done. Waiting the few additional seconds for the play to end doesn't endanger the player. Plus, it's good for kids to learn to persevere and play despite some pain.

I agree.  THis does NOT mean that you're not going to let the coaches / parents start to run on to the field -- as long as they dont' ionterfer, let them start to leave the dugout / stands.  In practice, they won't get very far before the play comes to a natural end.

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16 hours ago, noumpere said:

I agree.  THis does NOT mean that you're not going to let the coaches / parents start to run on to the field -- as long as they dont' ionterfer, let them start to leave the dugout / stands.  In practice, they won't get very far before the play comes to a natural end.

I can certainly tell you from experience you forget yourself when you see your kid hurt.

I was coaching, my daughter's in right field - with two out and bases loaded she makes a Superman catch in the gap, and then promptly drives her head right into the knee of F8 coming the other way.   I'm immediately running out there - I'm not thinking about the play, if she caught it or not, that there's actually a game going on.  My kid's (I think) out cold in RF.

As I get out there, she's rolling over onto her back, and just holding her head with her one hand, and her glove hand is just stretched out above her head.  Then I become aware that the base ump is out there, and I can see the runners are still moving.   The umpire looks at my daughter, looks at me, looks at the third base coach, who is halfheartedly waving the runners on and kind of giving a "what's the call?" look to Blue.   He looks down, reaches into my daughter's glove, grabs the ball, shows it to the coach, and says "out".

I have to say that the standing O from the other team's players and parents was pretty special.

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Had a Varsity DC refuse to let his players tag a batter runner who singled, and, rounding 1B, turned awkwardly and went down like he was hit by sniper fire. Kid just fell there, holding his knee. DC yelled out as a fielder was approaching to tag him "NO NO NO. TIME!!!  Thought it was a pretty classy move by the DC.

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I was working a Legion game a couple of weeks ago and with two runners on, the batter hit a fly ball to left field.  F7 just missed it and hit the fence and went down.  We kept it live and all the runners circled the bases.  The defense looked at my partner and I like we should kill it, but we just told them to play it.  DC never said a word about it.  F7 was fine and stayed in the game.

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From the 2016 BRD (section 554, pp. 363-364):

FED:  If a player or umpire is “incapacitated,” the umpire shall not call time “until no further advance or putout is possible.” (5-2-1d) EXCEPT:  “If there is a medical emergency or if, in the umpire’s judgment, further play could jeopardize the injured player’s safety,” he may call time at once. (5-2-1d-1)

NCAA:  If a player or umpire is “injured” during a live ball, the umpire shall not call time “until no further advance or putout is possible.” (6-5d)

OBR:  Same as NCAA. (5.12b-8)

“BRD recommends:  If you think another player might be injured as a result of the first player’s mishap, call time at once. In any game where the players don’t shave, call time at once anyway.”

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4 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

From the 2016 BRD (section 554, pp. 363-364):

FED:  If a player or umpire is “incapacitated,” the umpire shall not call time “until no further advance or putout is possible.” (5-2-1d) EXCEPT:  “If there is a medical emergency or if, in the umpire’s judgment, further play could jeopardize the injured player’s safety,” he may call time at once. (5-2-1d-1)

NCAA:  If a player or umpire is “injured” during a live ball, the umpire shall not call time “until no further advance or putout is possible.” (6-5d)

OBR:  Same as NCAA. (5.12b-8)

“BRD recommends:  If you think another player might be injured as a result of the first player’s mishap, call time at once. In any game where the players don’t shave, call time at once anyway.”

I agree with those rules; I disagree (slightly) with the recommendation.

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