Jump to content

Register or Sign In to remove these ads
johnnyg08

DH/Substitution/Re Entry

Recommended Posts

johnnyg08    1,498

Thoughts on this one? 

Here is the relevant piece to the scenario:

Lineup:

Jones 8

Smith DH

So...Smith is DHing for Jones who is playing centerfield.

In the 2nd inning Smith singles and is stranded on base.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes to play defense in center.

In the 5th inning Smith leads off with a single. Jones pinch runs for Smith.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield.

In the 7th inning Smith bats for Jones again and lines out to right field. 

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield

In the 9th inning Smith is in the on deck circle to hit again for Jones.

If Smith gets up to bat again...by rule is this legal or illegal? 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register or Sign In to remove these ads
ALStripes17    556
Thoughts on this one? 

Here is the relevant piece to the scenario:

Lineup:

Jones 8

Smith DH

So...Smith is DHing for Jones who is playing centerfield.

In the 2nd inning Smith singles and is stranded on base.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes to play defense in center.

In the 5th inning Smith leads off with a single. Jones pinch runs for Smith.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield.

In the 7th inning Smith bats for Jones again and lines out to right field. 

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield

In the 9th inning Smith is in the on deck circle to hit again for Jones.

If Smith gets up to bat again...by rule is this legal or illegal? 

 

 

 

When Jones pinch runs in the offensive 5th, the DH position is 'killed'. (Smith retains re-entry right as he was a starter by definition).

 

Smith reenters for Jones in the offensive 7th to hit. (Jones retains re-entry right as this is the first time he has left the ballgame and was a starter).

 

Jones reenters in defensive 7th to play CF. (Smith is now done as he no longer has re-entry).

 

If Smith plays in the game again, he is considered an illegal substitute.

 

Any questions?

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richvee    1,724
24 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Thoughts on this one? 

Here is the relevant piece to the scenario:

Lineup:

Jones 8

Smith DH

So...Smith is DHing for Jones who is playing centerfield.

In the 2nd inning Smith singles and is stranded on base.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes to play defense in center.

In the 5th inning Smith leads off with a single. Jones pinch runs for Smith.

DH position is done. Smith is out of the game with re entry rights.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield

All the same.

In the 7th inning Smith bats for Jones again and lines out to right field. 

Smith now has re entered, Jones on the bench with  re entry rights

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield

Jones re enters, Smith is done for the day.

In the 9th inning Smith is in the on deck circle to hit again for Jones.

If Smith gets up to bat again...by rule is this legal or illegal? 

Illegal, don't let him get up.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimurray    542
8 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

When Jones pinch runs in the offensive 5th, the DH position is 'killed'. (Smith retains re-entry right as he was a starter by definition).

 

Smith reenters for Jones in the offensive 7th to hit. (Jones retains re-entry right as this is the first time he has left the ballgame and was a starter).

 

Jones reenters in defensive 7th to play CF. (Smith is now done as he no longer has re-entry).

 

If Smith plays in the game again, he is considered an illegal substitute.

 

Any questions?

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Yes, why is @johnnyg08 asking such a simple question? Unless it is not simple. What does he mean by plays in the game again. I would suspect that would not happen with competent umpires. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnnyg08    1,498
6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Yes, why is @johnnyg08 asking such a simple question? Unless it is not simple. What does he mean by plays in the game again. I would suspect that would not happen with competent umpires. 

Read the OP again. The scenario is spelled out (I think) quite clearly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimurray    542
25 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Read the OP again. The scenario is spelled out (I think) quite clearly. 

And the answer as posted by @Richvee seems clear enough unless we are not getting something 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnnyg08    1,498
18 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

And the answer as posted by @Richvee seems clear enough unless we are not getting something 

I do not think @Richvee or @ALStripes17 are missing anything. Perhaps I am though...so I'll let the thread run a little longer. :-)  Thanks for chiming in! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt    1,194
3 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Thoughts on this one? 

Here is the relevant piece to the scenario:

Lineup:

Jones 8

Smith DH

So...Smith is DHing for Jones who is playing centerfield.

In the 2nd inning Smith singles and is stranded on base.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes to play defense in center.

In the 5th inning Smith leads off with a single. Jones pinch runs for Smith.

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield.

In the 7th inning Smith bats for Jones again and lines out to right field. 

At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes back to centerfield

In the 9th inning Smith is in the on deck circle to hit again for Jones.

If Smith gets up to bat again...by rule is this legal or illegal? 

I'm not seeing anything different from the other posts.

I'm also not sure why the bolded part is relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnnyg08    1,498

Not showing as bold on my screen. I bolded Smith vs drawing a line to separate the portion of the lineup that mattered for this scenario. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Matt    1,194
5 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Not showing as bold on my screen. I bolded Smith vs drawing a line to separate the portion of the lineup that mattered for this scenario. 

I had bolded this: At the end of their offensive half inning, Jones goes to play defense in center.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnnyg08    1,498
7 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Not showing as bold on my screen. I bolded Smith vs drawing a line to separate the portion of the lineup that mattered for this scenario. 

Yeah, just an effort at being thorough and complete to avoid any potential misunderstanding. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimurray    542
8 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Not showing as bold on my screen. I bolded Smith vs drawing a line to separate the portion of the lineup that mattered for this scenario. 

If that is a lineup Smith would be above Jones in one of the 9 slots. Jones would be in the 10 slot although some put the two together in the  batting slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
noumpere    2,412
10 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

I do not think @Richvee or @ALStripes17 are missing anything. Perhaps I am though...so I'll let the thread run a little longer. :-)  Thanks for chiming in! 

It's the same answers as you are getting on the other board.  And, a relatively simple and common questions / variant on the "can the DH re-enter" question that comes up a couple of times a year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VolUmp    212
15 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

Jones pinch runs for Smith

Actually, he's not pinch running per se ... this is a killing of the DH.

Everything AlStripes stated is verbatim what I would have stated ... except he is far more eloquent.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
johnnyg08    1,498
6 hours ago, noumpere said:

It's the same answers as you are getting on the other board.  And, a relatively simple and common questions / variant on the "can the DH re-enter" question that comes up a couple of times a year.

I know. We got it right...confidently and deliberately. But there was a lot of butt hurt from the team who tried to do this yesterday. But apparently this particular team has been doing it illegally and getting away with it for "decades" according to them....so, while those who have replied may know...hopefully one or two more guys will read this and get it right going forward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a twist that has been a topic of conversation this summer. Say Smith is DHing for Jones who is the P.  Once Smith reaches, a coach wants to lift the DH and put Jones on the bases. Then, coach tries to put a courtesy runner in for Jones immediately after inflammatioinitial switch .  Is this allowed?  Our state association has declared yes, though I disagree with it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ALStripes17    556

Why would it not be allowed? Courtesy runners are for the previous pitcher and catcher of record.

Same deal with pinch hitting for the catcher and re-entering that F2 when his sub reaches base (so that a courtesy runner can be used.)

It's allowed.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
noumpere    2,412
8 minutes ago, humanbackstop19 said:

Here's a twist that has been a topic of conversation this summer. Say Smith is DHing for Jones who is the P.  Once Smith reaches, a coach wants to lift the DH and put Jones on the bases. Then, coach tries to put a courtesy runner in for Jones immediately after inflammatioinitial switch .  Is this allowed?  Our state association has declared yes, though I disagree with it. 

Yes, it's allowed.  There's a case or interp on this (and the same answer applies if it was F2 instead of F1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimurray    542
1 hour ago, noumpere said:

Yes, it's allowed.  There's a case or interp on this (and the same answer applies if it was F2 instead of F1)

2005 Interps:

SITUATION 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A’s catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team’s coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner. (Speed-Up Rules)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lawump    707
2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

2005 Interps:

SITUATION 2: In the home half of the third inning, Team A’s catcher is legally pinch-hit for by S1. S1 draws a walk, and the coach legally re-enters the catcher. Now, with the catcher on first base, the home team’s coach requests and uses a courtesy runner for the catcher. RULING: This is a legal use of the courtesy runner. (Speed-Up Rules)

This casebook play should appear in the 2018 casebook since this exact situation resulted in three different states calling Indianapolis for an interpretation in 2017.  

Also, note that if S1 is NOT replaced by the re-entering F2, then the team cannot use a CR.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×