Jump to content

Register or Sign In to remove these ads
StrikeToWin

A couple mechanics from this weekend

Recommended Posts

I had two situations come up this weekend that my partner and I didn't agree on mechanics.

Sit. 1  -  Bases loaded 2 outs ball hit to F6 and R2 while running to 3B stops in front of F6 and throws hands in the air, dances around trying to distract F6.  I'm in C position and have turned to watch the ball for clean p/u and throw while and see R2's antics.  I immediately call time and announce "That's interference!"  No one complained about the call and everyone was yelling at R2 that he couldn't do that.  My partner however when we were grabbing a drink of water between innings told me that it was a delayed dead ball and I should've allowed the play to continue.  I argued that interference was immediately a dead ball.  Who is right?

Sit. 2  -  R1, nobody out, I'm in B position ball hit to F5 who fields and throws to F4 for the force, I make the out notification and begin to turn for the relay throw to F3 and out of the corner of my eye, I see what looks like hands thrown in the air and a late slide into F4 (throw was high to F3 and runner was safe), I looked at my partner for any indication of interference and he is watching the play at 1st.  Between innings while getting our water (it was 95 degrees and we were on turf), I asked if he saw anything at 2nd on that play.  His response to me was "I never have any responsibility at 2nd, that's all you".  I told him I think it's part of his responsibility to watch for interference at 2nd and he told me that I had bad mechanics if he thought that.  He said his responsibilities in that situation are a potential rotate to 3rd and absent that possibility, then watching for a pulled foot at 1st and then told me I needed to read up on mechanics again.  Am I wrong in thinking that he should help with a possible interference at 2B?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1.  You are correct that this type of interference (not all interference) is an immediate dead ball.

2.  BU is responsible for INT before the throw.  PU is responsible for INT after the throw.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sit #1 -Even though you have 2 outs already on the board... Call interference, time, that is interference you are out. 3rd out so there is no follow up play available and since bases were loaded the out occurred prior to a forced runner reaching safely so no run can score. If less than two outs and you feel no chance for a 2nd out... kill the play, award BR 1st, return all other runners to the base TOP. If you feel you can get two? You, your out... point to the next target, you - your out.

Definition of interference: Section 21 Art. 1 - Offensive interference is an act (physical or verbal) by the team at bat: 

a. which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play; or

b. when a runner creates malicious contact with any fielder, with or without the ball, in or out of the baseline; or

c. a coach physically assists a runner during playing action. 

 (FED 8-4-2g) The runner is out when: intentionally interferes with a throw or thrown ball; or he hinders a fielder on his initial attempt to field a batted ball. A fielder is not protected, except from initial contact if he misplays the ball and has to move from his original location; or his being put out is prevented by an illegal act by anyone connected with the team (2-21-1, 3-2-2, 3) or by the batter runner; for runner returning to a base (8-2-6); and for a runner being hit by a batted ball (8-4-2k). If, in the judgement of the umpire, a runner including the batter runner interferes in any way and prevents a double play anywhere, two shall be declared out (the runner who interfered and the other runner involved). If a retired runner interferes, and in the judgement of the umpire, another runner could have been put out, the umpire shall declare that runner out. If the umpire is uncertain who would have been played on, the runner closest to home shall be called out; or...

Sit #2 - the PU has the follow up of FPSR at 2nd... once F6/F4 throws to F3 you release and make the call unless you already have FPSR violation in which you would kill the play. After the throw you cannot stay with the play at 2nd so your partner has the cleanup.

 

You were right in both situations.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#1 isn't a mechanics issue, it's a rules issue. And he's wrong.

 

#2 is a mechanics issue, and he's still wrong. He also sounds like an arrogant, ignorant jackass.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, scrounge said:

#2 is a mechanics issue, and he's still wrong. He also sounds like an arrogant, ignorant jackass.

@scrounge... don't hold back. Tell us what you really think!

 

:cheers: :nod: :lol:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, scrounge said:

#1 isn't a mechanics issue, it's a rules issue. And he's wrong.

 

#2 is a mechanics issue, and he's still wrong. He also sounds like an arrogant, ignorant jackass.

LOL that is what I was thinking also

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That all being said... try and get that illegal slide of you can. Don't turn away to early. Optics wise... It looks better if you call it from 10 ft away rather than your partner calling it from 100 ft away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

That all being said... try and get that illegal slide of you can. Don't turn away to early. Optics wise... It looks better if you call it from 10 ft away rather than your partner calling it from 100 ft away.

I would not give up one of the hardest calls in 2 man, the back end of the DP, to get the FPSR violation. If it happens in front of you get it. Otherwise get turned and set for the play at 1B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've worked this into a pre-game with partners with whom I'm unfamiliar. I have no issue taking INT on the back half if I'm BU, since I can watch for it, then get the play at 1B. But I'll be sure my partner knows it's PU's textbook responsibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ElkOil said:

I've worked this into a pre-game with partners with whom I'm unfamiliar. I have no issue taking INT on the back half if I'm BU, since I can watch for it, then get the play at 1B. But I'll be sure my partner knows it's PU's textbook responsibility.

You can't watch for it if you are doing your job properly on the back end and a throw is imminent. If it blows up in front of you you get it, otherwise, turn and be set for the hardest call in 2 man.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I would not give up one of the hardest calls in 2 man

 

54 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

turn and be set for the hardest call in 2 man.

This call gets more difficult the more you try to make your point. I don't agree that it's as difficult as you state. Many calls are more routine, yet more difficult like trying to see a tag from a proper position, yet you're straight-lined. By comparison, two force outs are much easier for me. For you and perhaps others, this is a difficult call. I have no issues with it. We all have our kryptonite.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest complaint was the fact that he told me MY mechanics were bad if I thought he had any responsibility at 2B on that play, meaning to me, if the roles had been reversed and I had been PU and had seen this play with interference at 2B and called it, then he quite possibly would have been upset with me stepping on his call and responsibility.  You all have answered my questions about the mechanics though and I appreciate the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now... if we move this to three man... he would be correct (which might be why he got confused). Since you would have U3 at second and NO responsibility for the play at first, the plate guy would come up the line and help with the pulled foot only. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2017 at 11:22 PM, ElkOil said:

This call gets more difficult the more you try to make your point. I don't agree that it's as difficult as you state. Many calls are more routine, yet more difficult like trying to see a tag from a proper position, yet you're straight-lined. By comparison, two force outs are much easier for me. For you and perhaps others, this is a difficult call. I have no issues with it. We all have our kryptonite.

A middle infielder that can throw 75 mph gets the ball to F3 is about 0.75 seconds. If you can stay with a possible FPSR, get your head/eyes turned 90+ degrees, focus your vision on 1B in time to decide B/R safe/out "easily" in less than 0.75 seconds, then I tip my cap to you.  

75 mi      1 hr               5280 ft
-------  *   -------       *    ----------   = 110 ft/sec
hr          3600 sec         1 mile

Account for F3 stretch and MI inside 2B, then the ball travels about 83 feet.
               83 feet
time =    -----------    = 0.75 seconds
              110 ft/sec  

wonk, wonk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2017 at 10:22 PM, Jimurray said:

You can't watch for it if you are doing your job properly on the back end and a throw is imminent. If it blows up in front of you you get it, otherwise, turn and be set for the hardest call in 2 man.

 

3 hours ago, ricka56 said:

A middle infielder that can throw 75 mph gets the ball to F3 is about 0.75 seconds. If you can stay with a possible FPSR, get your head/eyes turned 90+ degrees, focus your vision on 1B in time to decide B/R safe/out "easily" in less than 0.75 seconds, then I tip my cap to you.  

75 mi      1 hr               5280 ft
-------  *   -------       *    ----------   = 110 ft/sec
hr          3600 sec         1 mile

Account for F3 stretch and MI inside 2B, then the ball travels about 83 feet.
               83 feet
time =    -----------    = 0.75 seconds
              110 ft/sec  

wonk, wonk

It kinda seems like according to you guys, I can't do this. And yet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

It kinda seems like according to you guys, I can't do this. And yet...

Never said that. 

Staying with the play at 2B has to include some evaluation time (int or not). If an umpire is going to call FPSR, there is no need to see what happens at 1B, but if he decides that there is no interference, the banger at 1B is about to happen (if it hadn't already). 0.75 seconds goes by quick.

I have all I can do to see the gloving/out at 2B, then turn to pickup BR approaching 1B. If you can stay with the play at 2B longer and still get the banger at 1B, more power to you. But if I was going to prioritize events, not missing the banger at 1B would be much higher than staying with the potential FPSR at 2B that PU is supposed to get.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ricka56 said:

Never said that. 

Staying with the play at 2B has to include some evaluation time (int or not). If an umpire is going to call FPSR, there is no need to see what happens at 1B, but if he decides that there is no interference, the banger at 1B is about to happen (if it hadn't already). 0.75 seconds goes by quick.

I have all I can do to see the gloving/out at 2B, then turn to pickup BR approaching 1B. If you can stay with the play at 2B longer and still get the banger at 1B, more power to you. But if I was going to prioritize events, not missing the banger at 1B would be much higher than staying with the potential FPSR at 2B that PU is supposed to get.

I don't disagree, and your point is well taken about taking the time needed to evaluate the play before taking your turn to 1B. But it's doable since you're right there at the time and if your position is good, you only have to do a quick turn to get the play at 1B. And you can get that turn in less time than the throw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I messed up backends of many a few two DPs. Always because I stayed with the play at 2B too long and the banger at 1B blew-up on me. If an umpire has similar experience, the fix is to not do that anymore. Let PU, who has this responsibility, get the FPSR violation at 2B.

PU having FPSR is on my pregame checklist. Be sure you don't have a partner like in the OP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't speak to what is being taught at the 4-5 week schools. But at the weekend Wendelstedt Clinic this past spring, they were teaching a single drop step to open up to the play at first on the back end. It allows the BU more time to stay with the slide at second than the old cross-over used to.

It took a lot of getting used to. (Heck... I'm still not used to it.) But I liked it when I got to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

I can't speak to what is being taught at the 4-5 week schools. But at the weekend Wendelstedt Clinic this past spring, they were teaching a single drop step to open up to the play at first on the back end. It allows the BU more time to stay with the slide at second than the old cross-over used to.

It took a lot of getting used to. (Heck... I'm still not used to it.) But I liked it when I got to do it.

Isn't it a drop step and then a crossover step once the fielder releases the ball? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Stk004 said:

Isn't it a drop step and then a crossover step once the fielder releases the ball? 

From what I remember... not any more.

It is a drop with the right to open up to the back end. It allows you to stay with the play at second longer.ike we always are told. It looks better to get the call from 20 feet rather than 100 feet if possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BT_Blue said:

From what I remember... not any more.

It is a drop with the right to open up to the back end. It allows you to stay with the play at second longer.ike we always are told. It looks better to get the call from 20 feet rather than 100 feet if possible.

So let's say you're starting it B. 

Ball is hit. Step up, turn, face the ball. Standing set for the play at second. Once that play happens, drop step and signal, right? So from here we're basically parallel  to the grass dirt line in front of us. Are you suggesting another drop step or a crossover step? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

So let's say you're starting it B. 

Ball is hit. Step up, turn, face the ball. Standing set for the play at second. Once that play happens, drop step and signal, right? So from here we're basically parallel  to the grass dirt line in front of us. Are you suggesting another drop step or a crossover step? 

It's another drop step. Crossing over will move you along the dirt cutout and straight line you into the play at first. 

Think of it as your normal drop step to open to the play at first. But you don't cross again to gain more ground.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×