Register or Sign In to remove these ads
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
LMSANS

Rain, No Pay

20 posts in this topic

I've had concerns since this organization went statewide.  The guys responsible for the umpires have a not so good reputation for non-payment, late payment and other such conduct.  Here is the latest scenario.  I received this in an email from one of my assigners.

 

We had a situation on Thursday at a USABL game.
The crew that was assigned to the 6:30 pm game called
me from the field at 6:15 due to lighting in the area.
The coaches at the game decided to cancel the game at
6:29 pm. I inform USABL that the coaches had canceled the game
and was told that the officials WOULD NOT BE PAID any fees by USABL.
 
This did not sit right with me. We called Babe Ruth who
is the President of USABL, but only got his voice mail. At that
point I sent him an e-mail which was ignored by him. Tomas
our Vice President reached out to Mr. Ruth and this is his reply;
 
“Tomas-- If we paid for all 60 games last night that got rained out with very badly timed rain we would be in the red. This is just a SH*#ty situation likewise one pitch is thrown and you get full pay. Not to mention the game still gets rescheduled we end up paying twice but do not get paid again by teams as you know. I get when a team cancels and does not tell anyone but when it is out of everyone's hands and mother nature rains at the worst time possible we would ask that all umpires understand.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register or Sign In to remove these ads

Here, rain outs don't pay. Even if you're there and dressed. Unless you start the game, once the plate meeting ends, that's when we get paid. Cancelled games less than 24 hours (really it's 6) or no shows, then it's paid.

 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same organization pays their northwest umpires travel fees when games are cancelled within one hour or less of the start time.

We organized our group and negotiated a deal with them. That was part of the deal. PM me if you want more of the details.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my province, our provincial organization negotiates agreements and standards with various organizations, youth and adult. I know some people like being a private contractor, but sometimes you need a umpire association to represent umpires in negotiation of standards and fees for assigned umpires with leagues and assignors.  

Even at my local youth association, we have decided that if the umpire is at the game when it is called then full game fees are to be paid. The onus is the home team to cancel the game in a timely manner.  Even if the umpire is in transit, full fees are paid. 

Me thinks if the assigning body is saying tough noogies to umpires who have games cancelled, then there are probably too many non-officiating people with their hands in the cookie jar. If a day of rain is putting them into financial peril, then maybe they should not be assigning games. I wonder if they still got paid for assigning those games. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

Not even a show up fee?

Nuttin'!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LMSANS said:

Nuttin'!

It can range from "full fee once it's assigned" to "no fee until the game is official" -- and obviously those are both extremes that are "never" used.  Exactly where it falls between depends on what your assigner / you the league have agreed to.  As far as I can tell, you knew the deal when you took the game, so it seems strange (to me) to be complaining about it now.

 

I do agree that you have an overall complaint about it -- most would give some sort of show-up fee, and bill the teams for it, so all share in the misfortune -- the umpire gets less, the team pays more, the assigner has to do more work to re-assign the game.  But, the complaint, and the negotiation, need to take place in the offseason.  And, it might be, that in exchange for the show-up feed, that you don't get the full game fee unless it becomes official.  For example, you might get a $25 show-up fee, plus $5 / inning for the first 5 (or partial), plus $10 after 5 -- making it a $60 game fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not work that league. I am not a volunteer, I expect to be paid for my time and effort. No pay (not even a show up fee), no play. 

Turn the situation around. Suppose the umpiring crew saw the weather as imminently threatening or sufficiently iffy, and instead of showing up, perhaps to be stiffed, decided to stay home? But the weather at the game site cleared up--and no umpires! 

As far as I can tell from the OP, it is unclear whether the no-fee policy was known in advance, so I won't fault anyone for complaining after the fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in Wisconsin, Leagues had a notification policy. If a game is called due to weather or field conditions inside 1-hour to game time, the umpires got half a game fee (I'd have to ask @Matthew Turner if that's still in place). This was due to all game venues being on average within a 1-hour drive of the Umpiring populace. Outside of an hour, it was "That's life in Wisconsin" and we'd hit the assigning website, looking for games with open slots remaining and still being played.

Tournaments were a whole different animal. Within the terms and conditions for those, if games were cancelled, you weren't paid. If you were already on-site, you might get a benevolent TD who would do anything from give you a few bucks for gas to comp you concession food (stuff four hot dogs in your face!), but it was entirely dependent upon the TD.

Here in Arizona... what are rainouts?

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not complaining, just sharing.  I'm not working summer ball this year.  I just wanted to share for discussion. @kevin_K shared some info about his organization's deal. It may be useful during the offseason. I'm just an umpire, I don't get involved in the business side of things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've generally felt you have to take the good with the bad - if a game lasts a couple innings and you get a full fee, a game lasts 60 minutes, a game lasts 3 hours, a rainout happens 10 minutes before game time, etc..it usually kind of evens out in the end. The best way to deal with this would probably for your assignor/association etc. to have negotiated (and for the teams to have agreed to) something like MadMax described.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, LMSANS said:

I've had concerns since this organization went statewide.  The guys responsible for the umpires have a not so good reputation for non-payment, late payment and other such conduct.  Here is the latest scenario.  I received this in an email from one of my assigners.

 

We had a situation on Thursday at a USABL game.
The crew that was assigned to the 6:30 pm game called
me from the field at 6:15 due to lighting in the area.
The coaches at the game decided to cancel the game at
6:29 pm. I inform USABL that the coaches had canceled the game
and was told that the officials WOULD NOT BE PAID any fees by USABL.
 
This did not sit right with me. We called Babe Ruth who
is the President of USABL, but only got his voice mail. At that
point I sent him an e-mail which was ignored by him. Tomas
our Vice President reached out to Mr. Ruth and this is his reply;
 
“Tomas-- If we paid for all 60 games last night that got rained out with very badly timed rain we would be in the red. This is just a SH*#ty situation likewise one pitch is thrown and you get full pay. Not to mention the game still gets rescheduled we end up paying twice but do not get paid again by teams as you know. I get when a team cancels and does not tell anyone but when it is out of everyone's hands and mother nature rains at the worst time possible we would ask that all umpires understand.”

I think they should pay travel pay to the umpires who were there, but not game fees. Game didn't even start.  Or half a game fee.  As far as the games scheduled for after that no pay.  Will say these umpires should have been called about the cancellations or get a half games fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BCBrad said:

In my province, our provincial organization negotiates agreements and standards with various organizations, youth and adult. I know some people like being a private contractor, but sometimes you need a umpire association to represent umpires in negotiation of standards and fees for assigned umpires with leagues and assignors.  

Even at my local youth association, we have decided that if the umpire is at the game when it is called then full game fees are to be paid. The onus is the home team to cancel the game in a timely manner.  Even if the umpire is in transit, full fees are paid. 

Me thinks if the assigning body is saying tough noogies to umpires who have games cancelled, then there are probably too many non-officiating people with their hands in the cookie jar. If a day of rain is putting them into financial peril, then maybe they should not be assigning games. I wonder if they still got paid for assigning those games. 

I imagine the mileage might be more where you're at, but I don't agree with a game fee for somebody who is notified in transit.  If that's the case who's to say that some people won't take advantage of it and ruin it for everybody else?  I do agree with your statement concerning hands in the cookie jar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LMSANS said:

Nuttin'!

That I disagree with. If nobody notifies you then half a game fee. If one pitch gets thrown then a full fee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MadMax said:

Back in Wisconsin, Leagues had a notification policy. If a game is called due to weather or field conditions inside 1-hour to game time, the umpires got half a game fee (I'd have to ask @Matthew Turner if that's still in place). This was due to all game venues being on average within a 1-hour drive of the Umpiring populace. Outside of an hour, it was "That's life in Wisconsin" and we'd hit the assigning website, looking for games with open slots remaining and still being played.

Tournaments were a whole different animal. Within the terms and conditions for those, if games were cancelled, you weren't paid. If you were already on-site, you might get a benevolent TD who would do anything from give you a few bucks for gas to comp you concession food (stuff four hot dogs in your face!), but it was entirely dependent upon the TD.

Here in Arizona... what are rainouts?

No kidding. I live in the Coachella Valley and have had maybe 2 rain outs in 22 years.  And I started out in Tennessee and we got a half game fee if we weren't notified of the rain outs in a timely fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We get half a game fee if we show and the games are called. But we have had to e-mail the home team's coaching staff or administration at least 48 hours previous to confirm game location and times. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last week my partner and I showed up to a game only to find that no teams were there. The game had been called due to rain, but the site director/coaches failed to notify our assigner. This situation, I believe, should warrant a full fee. Instead, we got a travel fee. How hard is it to tell the umpires the game is canceled?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ours matters on notification period by the different leagues (range is 1.5 hours to 3 hours) for teams to notify assigner who then communicates it by Arbiter or text/phone.  Half game fee to umpires if they don't comply billed from the association.  Most of our leagues collect a bond from the teams for these situations and most league rules state they have to renew their bond within a stated timeframe (usually about a week) or they can no longer play games.  Works pretty well, I had one game on a perfect sunny day called 2 hours before game, assigner texts me and says those games cancelled go to this other site I need you there.  I wasn't expecting it but got my show up fee because of the late cancel.

Tournaments are a bit of a different story, pretty much you have to start a game to get the fee, and cancellation windows are tighter, but never had an issue of not being notified.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Similar Content

    • By scrounge
      So, one of the biggest tournaments in the Midwest is this weekend in Central Ohio. Unfortunately, we've had a monsoon today, nearly a complete washout. This is one of the fields....
       
    • By BrianC14
      Everyone needed a helmet, and there weren't enough to go around.


    • By scrounge
      So...we have this massive tournament here called Buckeye Elite. It's one of the biggest in the midwest, approx 300 teams this year as I recall. I always take Thur and Fri off work to do it - it's generally good to very good ball, the assigner usually keeps me close to home, and it's pretty much my last big baseball thing of the year. Had 4 games sched for Thur and Fri, as well as Sat. I'm not yet good enough to work the Sun semi and final games, but those are played at either Ohio State's stadium or, for the 18U top teams, the local AAA stadium, a beautiful new stadium downtown.
      Anyway, it's pretty much only rained twice this summer - for 15 days the first time and 30 days the second. Seriously, I think there were only a day or two in June without some form of rain at some point in the day. Entire tournaments were washed out and it looked like this one was in danger as well. Thur was a complete loss, a handful of games got in on a couple turf fields but even they had to go down in the afternoon. My wife asked (made) me to help clean out the basement. In other news, we got $33.12 from the local home goods resale store for various crap. But I digress.
      Since hundreds of games got cancelled on Thur, the tourney decided to go to 5 innings, 1:30 time limit games on Fri. Many fields couldn't even start on time Fri due to aftereffects from Thur, but our field was ok. There was no communication to umpires as to reassignments - it was chaos and they just said work the same times and we'll settle up later. We were scheduled for 7 games on Fri due to it all. And guess what came in the middle of the 6th? Yep...more rain. We were lucky, the northern areas (the tourney takes up over 50 fields in the entire central OH area) got big storms in mid-afternoon and we were one of the last to go down. Shouldn't have finished the 6th game but we did, killing the final game. With so many games cancelled, the tourny made the very controversial decision to cut bracket play from 72 teams in each age group to 24 and eliminate ALL consolation games. So, basically, 3/4 of the teams in the tournament paid about/over $1000 for three 5 inning games. Some pretty unhappy people on twitter, from what I saw...but not sure what the alternative was.
      I felt the wrath from one idiot myself on Sat. Had the final pool game where the winner would move on. Still the same rules, 5 innings, 1:30 time limit (if no winner by then and tied, go to a shootout - man on 2nd, 3-2 count for everyone). Visiting team was going thru pitchers, being deliberate, etc., but they tie it in top of 4th. In bottom half, HT loads the bases with 1 out, 1 min left in time limit. VT coach changes pitcher, we tell him that will run out the clock, he's totally fine with it, understands. Blooper to LF, R3 takes off and would have been easily doubled off if caught. Alas, the LF dives and gets his glove on it but it bounces out, game over.

      As we're walking away, a parent comes up to us and starts ranting at us about "That's it? Are you f@#%#% lazy??? 4 innings? This is #@%% bu@#%@#". At first I thought he was just joking with us but once the f-bombs started flying we knew he wasn't. It got to the point where I had in mask in hand, preparing to use it as a defensive weapon in case. He finally walked away and we left with no further incident, but did he think we made the tournament rules??? We controlled the rain?
      He was frustrated and angry and just lashed out at the most visible, immediate target like a 4 yr old.
      Still, wasn't too bad of a weekend overall. Got 9 shorter games in vs the originally scheduled 12. And got that $33 for basement junk. Which is nice.
    • By ZebraStripes
      The rain modified schedules have been changing most days this year.  I can't imagine doing 13 weeks of schedule changes.