Register or Sign In to remove these ads
maven

Decide a bet

18 posts in this topic

I got a phone call to decide a mechanics bet between two crewmates today. See if you'd give the gift card to the same umpire.

2 umpires mechanics.

SITUATION: R1, outs don't matter. Batter hits a ground ball single into the outfield. PU rotates up to 3B, moving to the cutout when R1 commits to 3B. The ball is overthrown to 3B, and R1 starts toward HP.

QUESTION: Who covers the play at HP, and why?

PU's bet: BU should rotate home in this situation and take the play at the plate.

BU's bet: PU has to bust home and cover the play at the plate.

Who gets the gift card? Does it matter which 2-umpire system we're using?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Register or Sign In to remove these ads
I got a phone call to decide a mechanics bet between two crewmates today. See if you'd give the gift card to the same umpire.
2 umpires mechanics.
SITUATION: R1, outs don't matter. Batter hits a ground ball single into the outfield. PU rotates up to 3B, moving to the cutout when R1 commits to 3B. The ball is overthrown to 3B, and R1 starts toward HP.
QUESTION: Who covers the play at HP, and why?
PU's bet: BU should rotate home in this situation and take the play at the plate.
BU's bet: PU has to bust home and cover the play at the plate.
Who gets the gift card? Does it matter which 2-umpire system we're using?

It bothers me that the answers reflect both pawning off the call on the other.

I want every call!!!

In all seriousness, PU busts his tail back to the plate. He can read the play as it develops and get a head start back to HP ahead of R1. BU is going to be roughly the same distance away as he is in no man's land between 1B and 2B (possibly closer to 2B if BR is taking 2B on throw to third).

Other reasons: my antiquated AHSAA mechanics manual says so... As well as my current year CCA manual?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if in Ohio, this one is pretty easy. :) PU has the play at home per the Blue Book

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plate Umpire takes the call at home.  To answer 'why' is easy:  because it's the correct 2-man mechanic (at least based on the CCA manual);  the BU is already in the 'B' working area, and he can easily cover a back-pick at 1B or a play that may develop at 2B if B/R decides to try for 2B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PU covering home all day long!  BU has base responsibilities of BR.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The entire reason the PU takes the call at 3rd inside the diamond (as opposed to outside as with 3-man) is so that he can take the play at home on an overthrow.  He won't have to run but about 60 feet.  In 3-man, U1 will rotate for the play at the plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, VolUmp said:

The entire reason the PU takes the call at 3rd inside the diamond (as opposed to outside as with 3-man) is so that he can take the play at home on an overthrow.  He won't have to run but about 60 feet.  In 3-man, U1 will rotate for the play at the plate.

I have been instructed that the distance is not the concern, Rather, it is so PU does not have to take a throw over his shoulder for a play at the plate in the case of an overthrow.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/24/2017 at 6:15 PM, maven said:

PU rotates up to 3B, moving to the cutout when R1 commits to 3B.

I agree as all do, PU covers home. One small quibble. I've been instructed to bust up the 3B line, stay in the library and read the play...Do NOT cross into the cutout until you HAVE A PLAY @3B...That means batter AND ball.  if you don't have a play, don't cross to the cutout.  R1 committing to 3B without a throw coming to 3B means stay in the library. When it's obvious no play will be made on R1 @3B communicate to your partner you're returning home.   

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

35 minutes ago, Ryan Eisner said:

Can someone explain to me why the BU wouldn't rotate home in this situation?

If there is a runner between 1B and 2B or between 2B and 3B (or both), BU needs to be in the middle to take the play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Ryan Eisner said:

Can someone explain to me why the BU wouldn't rotate home in this situation?

Who is responsible for the batter runner if he stays at 2nd base in this situation?

This is why we teach that you are responsible for runners...not bases. The plate umpire is responsible for the lead runner. The base umpire is responsible for the batter/runner. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ryan Eisner said:

Can someone explain to me why the BU wouldn't rotate home in this situation?

For several reasons stated both before and after your post.  I particularly agree with V V this V V

On 6/24/2017 at 5:44 PM, ALStripes17 said:

In all seriousness, PU busts his tail back to the plate. He can read the play as it develops and get a head start back to HP ahead of R1. BU is going to be roughly the same distance away as he is in no man's land between 1B and 2B (possibly closer to 2B if BR is taking 2B on throw to third).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ryan Eisner said:

Can someone explain to me why the BU wouldn't rotate home in this situation?

I'm going to borrow your query, and alter it to present the converse, which sets up my observation below...

"Can someone explain to me why the BU would be expected to rotate home in this situation?"

On 6/24/2017 at 4:52 PM, Tborze said:

PU covering home all day long!  BU has base responsibilities of BR.

In 2-man, PU has the plate the vast majority of the time. There is one marginally occurring situation where BU has to cover the plate, and this one ☝️ isn't it.

On 6/24/2017 at 3:15 PM, maven said:

QUESTION: Who covers the play at HP, and why?

PU's bet: BU should rotate home in this situation and take the play at the plate.

BU's bet: PU has to bust home and cover the play at the plate.

Who gets the gift card? Does it matter which 2-umpire system we're using?

This is indicative of a 2-umpire system with rotations made up by the PU. Oh sure, it may have its foundation in OBR or Fed, but it's not taught at any camp, clinic or school. At best, it's a misapplication of the "Bases Empty, BU goes out on a hit down the RFL, PU takes BR all the way around to 3B, BU rotates, outside, to HP" (rare) rotation.

At worst, and far more likely, this is a PU who is either lazy or gets overcommitted to 3B and expects the BU – who is "not doing much" – to pick up the slack and cover HP... instead of reading a play, preparing himself to react (proactive / reactive) accordingly, and using hustle to get to his responsibilities...

... which is Home Plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Richvee said:

I agree as all do, PU covers home. One small quibble. I've been instructed to bust up the 3B line, stay in the library and read the play...Do NOT cross into the cutout until you HAVE A PLAY @3B...That means batter AND ball.  if you don't have a play, don't cross to the cutout.  R1 committing to 3B without a throw coming to 3B means stay in the library. When it's obvious no play will be made on R1 @3B communicate to your partner you're returning home.   

Sure, ordinarily you're right, go to 3B to cover a play.

My situation stipulated a single and an overthrow at 3B. There was a play to be covered, and the PU should be at the cutout for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, maven said:

Sure, ordinarily you're right, go to 3B to cover a play.

My situation stipulated a single and an overthrow at 3B. There was a play to be covered, and the PU should be at the cutout for it.

Yes, your sitch had a play at 3B. So you move to the cutout. My small quibble was you said " Move to the cutout when R1 commits to 3rd"

My only point was a general rule for PU covering 3B...if R1 commits to 3rd, and the throw comes into 2nd, to hold BR at 1B, don't move to the cutout, stay in the library and return home in foul territory. No need to cross to the cutout unless, like in your sitch, you have BOTH runner AND ball coming to 3rd. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PU has the play at the plate.  Also, he should bust back to the plate in fair territory and stay in it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now