Squeeze play

[DWDIII]

Squeeze play, R3 is coming hard, batter misses bunt. Catcher decides to go around batter and misses tag. Safe. DHC is mad wants obstruction (wrong, coach). The batter did not move after missing the bunt.  He squared to bunt and missed it then pulled the bat back and got small. I don't think the batter did anything wrong.  I told the coach that if the batter moved then he might have ran into the catcher. The coach said that then you have obstruction too (yeah, yeah - I'm not going to correct his verbiage, there is a bigger issue here). The way I see it was if the catcher would have dove out at the front corner of the plate then He's probably got an out but by going around......that was his choice and it didn't work out for him.   Thoughts?  I'll be over there in the rule book so I can site on my game report because I'm going to need one after that game. 

[umpstu]

The batter isn't protected just because he'sin the box.  Without seeing it though we have no idea.

[Rich Ives]

As described it's nothing.

[VolUmp]

The batter should be coached to do exactly what you described that he did.  In fact, R3 should be ready and willing to slide right through the batter's legs if necessary.  That same catcher probably hasn't been coached to go around the batter to throw down to 3rd Base, but he went around the batter on a squeeze ... when the shortest distance was in front of the batter.  I don't know the age group, since you didn't mention it in the OP, but if it's 12u or higher, this boils down to poor coaching.  We taught our catchers in 10u about his "right" to have a throwing lane to 2B, and his lack of a "right" to have a throwing lane to 3rd base, and his "survival of the fittest" mentality on a squeeze or straight steal of home.

I'm not sure what point UmpStu is trying to make.  He's right, that the batter's box isn't a sanctuary, but you described it in vivid detail, and as Rich did, we must respond as you described it.

[VolUmp]

11 hours ago, DWDIII said:

I'll be over there in the rule book so I can site on my game report because I'm going to need one after that game. 

I don't understand this statement.

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, DWDIII said:

 I'll be over there in the rule book so I can site on my game report because I'm going to need one after that game. 

The rule you want to cite (not site) is 6.03(a)(3):

 

(3) He interferes with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by

stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other

movement that hinders the catcher’s play at home base

[Rich Ives]

13 hours ago, noumpere said:

The rule you want to cite (not site) is 6.03(a)(3):

 

(3) He interferes with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by

stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other

movement that hinders the catcher’s play at home base

AND he didn't do either one.

[noumpere]

11 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

AND he didn't do either one.

Agreed -- I think that's what the OP ruled and was just looking for support.

[beerguy55]

Considering you primarily do squeeze plays with right handed batters for the advantages it provides, specifically because the right handed batter makes a pitch out extremely disadvantageous, and the batter is inherently in the way (much like the inherent advantage to stealing third with a right-handed batter up), common sense would dictate this is nothing 99.9% of the time.   Knowing the rule to cite certainly helps, but any coach that makes this argument either doesn't know the game itself, or has no integrity.

[catsbackr]

"Coach, is the batter supposed to disappear?"

[noumpere]

9 hours ago, catsbackr said:

"Coach, is the batter supposed to disappear?"

Sometimes, the answer to that question is "yes," so I'd be careful about asking it (it's also how myths get started / perpetuated).

[maven]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

Sometimes, the answer to that question is "yes," so I'd be careful about asking it (it's also how myths get started / perpetuated).

Maybe not that exact question: fielders are sometimes required to disappear. Batters and runners though? I'm not remembering an instance.

[noumpere]

52 minutes ago, maven said:

Maybe not that exact question: fielders are sometimes required to disappear. Batters and runners though? I'm not remembering an instance.

R3, not stealing.  Ball in the dirt bounces away.  Now R3 advances.  B has time to vacate (i.e., "disappear") but chooses not to.

[maven]

15 minutes ago, noumpere said:

R3, not stealing.  Ball in the dirt bounces away.  Now R3 advances.  B has time to vacate (i.e., "disappear") but chooses not to.

I guess I'm thinking of "disappear" differently: as a coach would be using it, the term imposes an apparently impossible demand based on not having time to get out of the way.

The standard example is a fielder booting a batted ball. He's in the runner's path, but he's protected until he boots it. Once it goes through (beyond a step and a reach), he has to "disappear" or be liable for OBS, even if he has no time to do so.

Your play assumes that B does have time to vacate, so that wouldn't really count as "disappearing" in this sense.

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Your play assumes that B does have time to vacate, so that wouldn't really count as "disappearing" in this sense.

As an umpire, I agree.  Bur, too often, coaches / fans / players hear us use a word, meaning it in one way, and then they try to apply it in a similar (to them) but meaningfully different (to us) way.

[catsbackr]

14 hours ago, noumpere said:

Sometimes, the answer to that question is "yes," so I'd be careful about asking it (it's also how myths get started / perpetuated).

No, in the OP, the answer is never yes.  I'm pretty sure I know when to ask the question and how to ask it.

[noumpere]

13 hours ago, catsbackr said:

No, in the OP, the answer is never yes.  I'm pretty sure I know when to ask the question and how to ask it.

The problem is that after you ask this of the coach, and he agrees, the next game a similar play happens, I rule the opposite way, and the coach asks me the question, I answer the opposite way -- now the coach thinks I am nuts.  -- he's bought into a myth.

 

Or. someone not as astute as you or I reads the thread and starts asking the question at his / her games, where it doesn't apply.

[BrianC14]

What is similar to a squeeze play?  (Considering the timing and location of the involved players?)

[beerguy55]

On 7/3/2017 at 8:02 AM, BrianC14 said:

What is similar to a squeeze play?  (Considering the timing and location of the involved players?)

A straight steal of home, where even the batter doesn't know it's coming.

On a squeeze, batter is typically closer to the front of box...if I'm a batter and know the steal is coming, I'm probably at the back of the box, for a few reasons.