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TAG OR FORCE STANDS


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No outs, first base occupied... the batter lines out to second base, runner realizes and returns to first before force. HOWEVER... the runner over runs first on his return as ball arrives late for force.

Does force then apply OR is tag necessary before base runner re-occupies first base to be considered an out?

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15 minutes ago, Guest LEN said:

No outs, first base occupied... the batter lines out to second base, runner realizes and returns to first before force. HOWEVER... the runner over runs first on his return as ball arrives late for force.

Does force then apply OR is tag necessary before base runner re-occupies first base to be considered an out?

This isn't a force out. This is an appeal for failing to tag up. Once the runner has retouched the base from which he started, he has corrected his infraction. If he overruns going back to his original base, he must be tagged while off the base to be out.

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First off, with the Batter-Runner (BR) retired on a liner to the 2nd baseman (F4), any Force is removed, so let's not use that term any further.

Next, the Runner on first (R1) needs to return to and/or tag up at 1B, else he's liable to be put out on what's termed an appeal. All he needs to do is touch 1B prior to the ball tagging him or the 1B bag. 

If you imply that he touched 1B, but his momentum took him beyond the bag and he lost contact with it, then he satisfied the tag up, and would have to be physically tagged by the ball to be put out.

If, however, R1 never touches the bag in his effort to return, and the ball beats him to the bag, he is out.

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On 6/16/2017 at 10:04 PM, MadMax said:

First off, with the Batter-Runner (BR) retired on a liner to the 2nd baseman (F4), any Force is removed, so let's not use that term any further.

Next, the Runner on first (R1) needs to return to and/or tag up at 1B, else he's liable to be put out on what's termed an appeal. All he needs to do is touch 1B prior to the ball tagging him or the 1B bag. 

If you imply that he touched 1B, but his momentum took him beyond the bag and he lost contact with it, then he satisfied the tag up, and would have to be physically tagged by the ball to be put out.

If, however, R1 never touches the bag in his effort to return, and the ball beats him to the bag, he is out.

Had this exact scenario happen in the last game of last season.

R1 returned to and touched first (fly ball to right field) and then came off it.  F3 caught the ball with foot on bag, after the runner had touched it, but while runner was off it.  F3 didn't notice R1 was off bag and then threw ball back to pitcher.  PU thought about it for a second, and called R1 out.

He not only insisted that the runner was out, but that it was a force play, and insisted that the force was still on because the runner didn't stay on the bag.

I asked him if a forced runner who slides into second base, touches it, and then goes past it is still subject to the force, and he said yes.

And this is a guy who had umped for 30 years.

Even his partner was shaking his head, but couldn't convince the ump to reverse the decision....I don't even know if that was PU's call to make....I'm thinking it should have been BU's call, but not sure.   My assumption is PU is watching the catch, BU is watching the touch.

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14 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Had this exact scenario happen in the last game of last season.

R1 returned to and touched first (fly ball to right field) and then came off it.  F3 caught the ball with foot on bag, after the runner had touched it, but while runner was off it.  F3 didn't notice R1 was off bag and then threw ball back to pitcher.  PU thought about it for a second, and called R1 out.

He not only insisted that the runner was out, but that it was a force play, and insisted that the force was still on because the runner didn't stay on the bag.

I asked him if a forced runner who slides into second base, touches it, and then goes past it is still subject to the force, and he said yes.

And this is a guy who had umped for 30 years.

Even his partner was shaking his head, but couldn't convince the ump to reverse the decision....I don't even know if that was PU's call to make....I'm thinking it should have been BU's call, but not sure.   My assumption is PU is watching the catch, BU is watching the touch.

BU has both. Closed bases might be different. 

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