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VolUmp

Non-Ejections: 2 Examples

35 posts in this topic

26 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

So here's a general question for the group. What good does explaining your call on a standard safe/out play at first do? We're talking no pulled foot possibility, no swipe tag, just a standard safe/out. If I call him safe, obviously I had the runner beating the ball. There's no other reason to call him safe. So when the coach comes out and tells me "Well we saw it differently," shouldn't we just say "Okay" and get on with the game? 

Yep.   Anything he says beyond that one word answer is 99.999% of the time going to be nothing but a repeated comment, which will lead to a place he doesn't want to go.

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The rule book in every code says, "A coach or player may not object to a judgment call."

Reality check — "On a simple call of judgment where it's as simple as I say he beat it and you say he didn't, I'm giving you no time to vent.  Play ball."

They may object all day and night if they would like.

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7 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

Yep.   Anything he says beyond that one word answer is 99.999% of the time going to be nothing but a repeated comment, which will lead to a place he doesn't want to go.

Exactly. This is why I typically don't entertain dumb comments from the bench, or even when the coach comes out if they're simply telling me he disagrees. Of course he does, it was a close play and he has skin in the game. Offering an explanation on a standard call is beyond me. That said, I am going to start offering on the spot explanations to participants when something unusual happens on an otherwise obvious play, such as R3 sliding wide of home with his lead leg and getting tagged out on his tucked shin. 

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6 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

Exactly. This is why I typically don't entertain dumb comments from the bench, or even when the coach comes out if they're simply telling me he disagrees. Of course he does, it was a close play and he has skin in the game. Offering an explanation on a standard call is beyond me. That said, I am going to start offering on the spot explanations to participants when something unusual happens on an otherwise obvious play, such as R3 sliding wide of home with his lead leg and getting tagged out on his tucked shin. 

My second umpire instructor ever, my first in the state of TN, would answer every coach who argued balls and strikes the same way on their first outburst in a game:

"Coach,

That pitch entered that area over home plate, the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the batter's shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level that is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. It was also determined from the batter’s stance as the batter was prepared to swing at the pitched ball."

If there was a (2nd or more) outburst, he'd go traditional: ignore - warn - eject.

I would fight to get assigned with him just so I could hear his carefully memorized reply.  It was priceless.

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12 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

My second umpire instructor ever, my first in the state of TN, would answer every coach who argued balls and strikes the same way on their first outburst in a game:

"Coach,

That pitch entered that area over home plate, the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the batter's shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level that is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. It was also determined from the batter’s stance as the batter was prepared to swing at the pitched ball."

If there was a (2nd or more) outburst, he'd go traditional: ignore - warn - eject.

I would fight to get assigned with him just so I could hear his carefully memorized reply.  It was priceless.

My $.02 is that the cited recitation is about 66 words too long.  The "ignore" is all a coach's first whine is worth.  Unless, of course, he jumps the shark on his first outburst. 

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5 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

My $.02 is that the cited recitation is about 66 words too long.  The "ignore" is all a coach's first whine is worth.  Unless, of course, he jumps the shark on his first outburst. 

I agree, Brian, but it was funny as hell to watch.  Life's too short to always go textbook.

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1 hour ago, BrianC14 said:

My approach is that life is too short to suffer fools.

I bet you're a BLAST at parties. 

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On 7/15/2017 at 0:10 PM, Stk004 said:

So here's a general question for the group. What good does explaining your call on a standard safe/out play at first do? We're talking no pulled foot possibility, no swipe tag, just a standard safe/out. If I call him safe, obviously I had the runner beating the ball. There's no other reason to call him safe. So when the coach comes out and tells me "Well we saw it differently," shouldn't we just say "Okay" and get on with the game? 

I have been thinking about your post.  I think it hints at an even bigger issue.  Too many of us umpires feel the need to "talk" during an argument...to the point where we start arguing/discussing/talking before the coach even opens his mouth.  That is, we don't wait to hear what the coach has to say before we feel compelled to open our mouths and start talking.  Hell, some of us start talking/yelling while the coach is still walking/jogging toward us.  We don't even wait for him to arrive at our location.  Those of us that do this (and I used to be one of them) really need to stop doing this.  We need to hear what the coach says/argues before we even open our mouth.  When we feel the need to be the first one to start talking/yelling we are doing so only after having made an assumption that we know what the coach is going to say...and we all know what happens when we ass-u-me.  

On more than one occasion I have been on the field when a head coach came out to "argue" (either with me or a partner) and the first words out of his mouth were, "I know you got the call right, we're just playing like crap so I'm out here to show my team that I'm fighting for them," (or something similar) (I'm not making that up...this has happened multiple times in my career).  If my partner or I had started yelling/talking to/at the coach before listening to the coach, we wouldn't have had the chance to realize that the coach wasn't even coming out to argue!  Additionally, there have been other times when I was 100% sure I knew why the coach was coming out to argue...only to find out that I was wrong.  For instance, I once had the Vanderbilt head coach come out and I was sure he was going to argue that the second baseman had come off the bag too quickly in turning a 6-4-3 double-play.  I wasn't feeling great about my call.  However, lo and behold, his argument was that the batted ball had hit R2...which I knew was not even a remote possibility.  If I had opened my mouth first instead of waiting to hear what he had to say...I would have just given the head coach another thing to argue!

Anyways (now that I'm off my soap box), if the coach comes out to a standard safe/out play at first base, I'll listen to them.  I'll tell them, "I had the ball just beating the runner," or "the runner just beat the throw."  I'll let them reply and then I'll say "We'll have to agree to disagree.  Now, we need to get the game going."  They'll usually give a parting shot (coaches love to have the last word.)  Then we go on.  

I have never had this happen, but if a coach told me, "Well, we saw it differently," then I would probably reply with, "Okay, then we'll have to agree to disagree.  Now, Its time to get the game going."  

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