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Designated Hitter - American Legion Junior Division


BullDawg
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American Legion - Junior Division:

We are the home team and leading 3-1 into the top of the 7th.

Opposing team substitutes their DH #4 hitter in their lineup for their catcher #9 hitter in their lineup. 

The player who the DH was hitting for moves from right field to left field - position change only along with a couple other position changes.

NOTE: THE CHANGES WERE NOT CLEARLY PRESENTED TO THE SCOREKEEPER. WHAT WAS SAID WAS WE ARE DROPPING OUR DH, DH WOULD GO TO CATCHER POSITION AND OTHER POSITION CHANGES.

Ok back to the game

Batter #8 first up strikes out

Batter #9 - Is where the question comes into play. The #9 batter was the catcher, who they substituted for their DH. The original right fielder was being hit for by the DH. Who should occupy the #9 position in the batting order?

The opposing team stated we dropped out DH, but that does not mean you can alter your batting order and skip the # 9 position in the order. They sent their # 1 batter to the plate and we questioned the batting order with the other team and the umpire. The umpire stated that you need to have someone bat in the # 9 position in the batting order. Now since the # 1 batter came to bat and took 1 ball and 1 strike before play was stopped to question the order the decision was to insert a pinch hitter with a 1 ball / 1 strike count in the # 9 position of the batting order.

Yes this is getting Abbott and Costello like. The kicker is we played the same team last week and had a similar situation with a player coming to bat who did not report in and was called out by the umpires working the game. We now know it was the wrong call by the umpires but back to back games our opponent has apparently mismanaged the lineup causing us to speak up about it.

Your thoughts please and thank you for taking the time to view our post.

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The DH and the player he is hitting for cannot both be playing on the field at the same time. They also cannot both be batting in any other spot in the lineup than they were in the original lineup.

15 minutes ago, BullDawg said:

American Legion - Junior Division:

We are the home team and leading 3-1 into the top of the 7th.

Opposing team substitutes their DH #4 hitter in their lineup for their catcher #9 hitter in their lineup. 

The player who the DH was hitting for moves from right field to left field - position change only along with a couple other position changes.

This is perfectly fine. Position changes have no impact on the DH

NOTE: THE CHANGES WERE NOT CLEARLY PRESENTED TO THE SCOREKEEPER. WHAT WAS SAID WAS WE ARE DROPPING OUR DH, DH WOULD GO TO CATCHER POSITION AND OTHER POSITION CHANGES.

Ok back to the game

Batter #8 first up strikes out

Batter #9 - Is where the question comes into play. The #9 batter was the catcher, who they substituted for their DH. The original right fielder was being hit for by the DH. Who should occupy the #9 position in the batting order?

The player who was originally listed as the catcher (F2) or his sub could bat in this position. The DH already had a slot in the batting order and cannot bat in any other position in the batting order. The DH cannot be a substitute for any other player except the one he is married to in the original lineup.

The opposing team stated we dropped out DH, but that does not mean you can alter your batting order and skip the # 9 position in the order. They sent their # 1 batter to the plate and we questioned the batting order with the other team and the umpire.

Since the DH reached base and the next batter already received two pitches, the DH at bat becomes legitimate and he stays on base. Which ever player followed the DH in the original batting order should have come to the plate to finish the at bat.

The umpire stated that you need to have someone bat in the # 9 position in the batting order. Now since the # 1 batter came to bat and took 1 ball and 1 strike before play was stopped to question the order the decision was to insert a pinch hitter with a 1 ball / 1 strike count in the # 9 position of the batting order.

This is something the umpires just made up. The proper batter would have been which ever player was listed after the F2/DH position in the original lineup.

Yes this is getting Abbott and Costello like. The kicker is we played the same team last week and had a similar situation with a player coming to bat who did not report in and was called out by the umpires working the game. We now know it was the wrong call by the umpires but back to back games our opponent has apparently mismanaged the lineup causing us to speak up about it.

Your thoughts please and thank you for taking the time to view our post.

So how does this need to be fixed?

F2 and DH can't play defense at the same time. If the team wants to use their DH defensively, F2 has to come out of the game. No player can move from their original spot in the batting order. 

Here is a link to American Legion rules . See page 11 for DH in junior legion.

I hope I got it right.

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I forgot about the illegal substitution by the DH. My apologies.

The player who was removed from the game when the DH entered the field needs to be replaced by a legal substitute - anyone other than the DH who was not in the original lineup and has not been used as a substitute.

 

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Gentlemen, Thank you for your responses. They were what we expected. The problem with the situation as a whole is that we have played 3 games in a weeks time. Two have been against this same team and in our first match up one of their players stepped into the batters box unannounced and took a couple of pitches before we questioned if he had checked in - which he had not. The umpires called him out (wrong call). The next game the team we were playing announced a substitute by number which was not on the lineup card which was handed to us and the plate umpire prior to the start of the game. When we asked what the players last name was the other coach just kept saying the number. The scorekeeper asked for a last name because there was no number on the lineup card listed for the substitution they had made. The plate umpire immediately discussed with the base umpire and called the batter out. Then tonight again, three consecutive games, and against the same team as the first situation. Our scorekeeper has had complaints lodged against him by both teams for pointing out the situations by both teams and tonight the scorekeeper was yelled at by an opposing coach who is also the legion baseball president. The score keep documents the facts of the game, the coaches and umpires are there to teach and manage the game with the help of the rules established as guidelines. The problem with American Legion rules are you have several documents to refer to, Official Baseball Rules, American Legion Rules and Local League Rules. Frustrating and confusing to say the least.

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10 hours ago, BullDawg said:

American Legion - Junior Division:

The original right fielder was being hit for by the DH.

WHile Legion is supposed to use OBR, based on this, I think you were using FED (at least for this rule).

So, the batting order was originally:

   1.

   2.

   3.

   4. Daniels (DH) / hitting for Kerwin (F9)

   5. 6. 7. 8.

   9. Irwin (F2)

Then, after the changes, it became:

   4. Daniels (F2)

   9. Irwin (F9)

The ROLE of the DH is gone, the players still bat in the original order.

Assuming I am reading the OP correct and that they are using FED rules, I have it as all legal.

(And, if they are using OBR, they are illegal from the start to have the DH hitting for F9 -- or anyone other than F1)

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