"Slip Pitch" vs. "Drop"

[VolUmp]

FED  R1 & R3

Pitcher loses footing and spikes the pitch into the ground. Ball rolled about 20 feet and stopped. My partner called "ball."  

As soon as it stopped rolling, I called "TIME! That's a Balk."

Defensive HC is obviously annoyed at the conflicting calls, partner and I got together and I told him that a "Slip Pitch" or a "Drop" are handled alike — that it must cross the foul line to be considered a pitch.

With no one on, it's nothing.

With men on, it's a balk (no pitch).

He looked at me like I had two heads.

Neither OBR nor FED uses the term SLIP PITCH, but I've always understood that a drop or a slip pitch are governed alike.

I'd appreciate anyone's take on this with a casebook citation or a quote from the BRD.

[maven]

I've never heard of a slip pitch.

What you describe is a balk (6-2-4a): "any feinting toward the batter or first base, or any dropping of the ball (even though accidental) and the ball does not cross a foul line"

We called a balk this spring on a pitcher who was taking his sign while fiddling with the ball. He dropped it and caught it before it hit the ground. Balk.

[VolUmp]

 I guess my point is, I don't think either rule book covers as clearly as they should, what we saw today.  It's not so much dropping the ball, as it is losing his footing and pitching the ball right into the ground.

I made the ruling over the top of my partner, he clearly didn't know the rule, the coach asked a couple of questions about it, he also didn't know the rule well enough to argue it, but to simply say, "Throwing the pitch into the ground is no different than dropping the ball" feels like a weak explanation. 

[Mike D]

FED  R1 & R3
Pitcher loses footing and spikes the pitch into the ground. Ball rolled about 20 feet and stopped. My partner called "ball."  
As soon as it stopped rolling, I called "TIME! That's a Balk."
Defensive HC is obviously annoyed at the conflicting calls, partner and I got together and I told him that a "Slip Pitch" or a "Drop" are handled alike — that it must cross the foul line to be considered a pitch.
With no one on, it's nothing.
With men on, it's a balk (no pitch).
He looked at me like I had two heads.
Neither OBR nor FED uses the term SLIP PITCH, but I've always understood that a drop or a slip pitch are governed alike.
I'd appreciate anyone's take on this with a casebook citation or a quote from the BRD.

If it crosses the foul line it's a ball. If it doesn't make it that far it's a balk.

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[Jimurray]

31 minutes ago, maven said:

I've never heard of a slip pitch.

What you describe is a balk (6-2-4a): "any feinting toward the batter or first base, or any dropping of the ball (even though accidental) and the ball does not cross a foul line"

We called a balk this spring on a pitcher who was taking his sign while fiddling with the ball. He dropped it and caught it before it hit the ground. Balk.

"slip" does appear in the OBR wording:

"  The pitcher, while touching his plate, accidentally or intentionally has the ball slip or fall out of his hand or glove; "

But I never heard the term "slip pitch". BTW is tossing the ball in his hand a balk for this reason.

[maven]

1 hour ago, VolUmp said:

 I guess my point is, I don't think either rule book covers as clearly as they should, what we saw today.  It's not so much dropping the ball, as it is losing his footing and pitching the ball right into the ground.

I made the ruling over the top of my partner, he clearly didn't know the rule, the coach asked a couple of questions about it, he also didn't know the rule well enough to argue it, but to simply say, "Theowinf the pitch into the ground is no different than dropping the ball" feels like a weak explanation. 

You could point him to 6-1-4: "throwing into the ground" also satisfies the description "dropped during delivery." The following rule is designed to cover every instance of the ball leaving F1's hand.

Quote

"Each legal pitch shall be declared by the umpire as a strike, ball, fair or foul hit or a dead ball. A pitch dropped during delivery and which crosses a foul line shall be called a ball. Otherwise, it will be called no pitch. A pitch dropped during delivery with at least one runner on base would be a balk if it does not cross a foul line."

 

[VolUmp]

Maven,

6-1-4 IS the one and only FED rule I can cite. I don't agree that this covers "pitching the ball into the ground" all that clearly.

I DO agree that it covers the pitcher who lets the ball slip out of his hand as he starts into the windup and the ball rolls toward 2nd base.

[noumpere]

I think some of the "interps" use the term.  Here's J/R's description (although he doesn't seem to use the exact term):

A slip (as opposed to a pitch) is a released baseball, intended to be a pitch, but
which lacks both aim and momentum. Any ball that slips out of a pitcher's hand
and crosses a foul line is a ball. A slip which does not cross a foul line is a balk if
there is a runner, and no pitch if there is not a runner. If a slip occurs and the ball
would have crossed the foul line, but a fielder prevents it from doing so, with no
runners it is a ball, and with runners it is a balk.

[VolUmp]

2 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I think some of the "interps" use the term.  Here's J/R's description (although he doesn't seem to use the exact term):

A slip (as opposed to a pitch) is a released baseball, intended to be a pitch, but
which lacks both aim and momentum. Any ball that slips out of a pitcher's hand
and crosses a foul line is a ball. A slip which does not cross a foul line is a balk if
there is a runner, and no pitch if there is not a runner. If a slip occurs and the ball
would have crossed the foul line, but a fielder prevents it from doing so, with no
runners it is a ball, and with runners it is a balk.

That's what I needed. Of course, the FED world doesn't much appreciate or even recognize Jaksa & Roder, but this explains the sitch we had today better than anything else I've seen. 

Thanks. 

[ALStripes17]

So you believe the rules have a loophole that allow for a pitch that is spiked straight into the ground to be called a 'ball' if it doesn't make it across the foul line? Solely because the umpire has to judge whether or not F1 dropped it?

 

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[VolUmp]

7 hours ago, ALStripes17 said:

So you believe the rules have a loophole that allow for a pitch that is spiked straight into the ground to be called a 'ball' if it doesn't make it across the foul line? Solely because the umpire has to judge whether or not F1 dropped it?

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No, I absolutely don't think that … didn't imply that … didn't state that.

So sorry you evidently struggle with the English language.  (I do realize you're from Alabama).

[ALStripes17]

No, I absolutely don't think that … didn't imply that … didn't state that.
So sorry you evidently struggle with the English language.  (I do realize you're from Alabama).

Because Tennessee is much better.

So what is the point of your post?

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[VolUmp]

On 6/3/2017 at 4:09 PM, ALStripes17 said:

Because Tennessee is much better.
So what is the point of your post?

I asked for and received something in writing that explains what I referred to as the "slip pitch," better than the OBR book, or the FED book. The J/R interp seems to be the best as I stated above with thanks to NOUMPERE.

I wasn't lobbying for a declaration of a loophole, I was lobbying for a better explanation than the word "drop."