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Softball pitcher practices throwing motion inside pitchers circle prior to pitch


Guest Chris K
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Guest Chris K

Scenario: batter is in box and softball pitcher stands by rubber (not on rubber) and faces batter and goes through full motion including step as her warm up. Then steps on mound to pitch. She's not doing it intentionally to distract the batter it is just part of her routine yet it is distracting batter and runners because it looks like a pitch. 10u softball. Is this legal? Anything in rule book? 

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5 hours ago, Guest Chris K said:

Scenario: batter is in box and softball pitcher stands by rubber (not on rubber) and faces batter and goes through full motion including step as her warm up. Then steps on mound to pitch. She's not doing it intentionally to distract the batter it is just part of her routine yet it is distracting batter and runners because it looks like a pitch. 10u softball. Is this legal? Anything in rule book? 

Is a batter's practice swing while in the batter's box a strike?

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No, it's not legal if the catcher is in position to receive the pitch (pitcher is not considered in pitching position if the catcher isn't in position).   If the everyone's in position to expect a pitch, it's an illegal pitch.

It could be considered pitching without legally touching the pitcher's plate, or failing to release the pitch after starting the windup.  A pitch is defined by the start of the windup, not the release of the ball.

Remember that at this point the runner can't leave the base until the pitcher releases the ball.  A runner could think the pitch is coming and leave the base thinking it's a pitch.  it could be construed as an attempt to deceive the runner.

29 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Is a batter's practice swing while in the batter's box a strike?

It would be if a pitch was on the way.

 

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It's a 10U bat sport. A butterfly distracts most participants between pitches, whether underhand or overhand.

Can the Runners lead off, or depart the base until the ball crosses the plate? Has the ball left the pitcher's possession during this faux lancer?...

No. So what's the problem?

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29 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

Use this as a teachable moment... let the coach know and let him fix it.

As @MadMax said... 10u.

Well, you might be assuming the OP asking the question is an umpire.  We don't know the full context of the situation.  I'm suspecting an umpire actually told the kid/coach "you can't do that", and the coach/parent argued it or didn't like it.

I agree, at 10U this is where the kids are supposed to learn.   Sometimes (oftentimes?) the coaches need to learn too.

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

It's a 10U bat sport. A butterfly distracts most participants between pitches, whether underhand or overhand.

Can the Runners lead off, or depart the base until the ball crosses the plate? Has the ball left the pitcher's possession during this faux lancer?...

No. So what's the problem?

In softball (typically) the runners can leave as soon as the ball leaves the pitcher's hand.  So, they (even at 10U) time their "lead off" to occur as the pitcher is completing the windmill when they expect the ball to leave the hand.  If the ball doesn't leave the hand, it's a lead off and the runner is out, unless it's ruled an illegal pitch.

Or, as appropriate, an understanding umpire says "don't do that".

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7 hours ago, Guest Chris K said:

Scenario: batter is in box and softball pitcher stands by rubber (not on rubber) and faces batter and goes through full motion including step as her warm up. Then steps on mound to pitch. She's not doing it intentionally to distract the batter it is just part of her routine yet it is distracting batter and runners because it looks like a pitch. 10u softball. Is this legal? Anything in rule book? 

Can they not see she's not on the rubber?

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22 minutes ago, UMP45 said:

Can they not see she's not on the rubber?

Runners on first or third may not be able to see that.  Heck, at this age you could have any or all of F3/4/5/6 between 1st/3rd base and the rubber.   All the runner sees is a windmill.

On a side note - 50% of me finds ball at this level incredibly adorable.  And the other 50% painful.

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 I have been UIC of the last two U10 provincial grand championships in Canada and this is the wording from Softball Canada Official Rule Book: Rule 6.1.c

"Before commencing the delivery (pitch), the pitcher: Must have both feet on the ground within 61.0 cm (24 inch) length of the pitchers plate. The hips shall be in line with first and third bases and both feet must be in contact with the pitcher's plate".     So if she is not in contact with the pitcher's plate she can practice her windup all she wants. I can find nothing in the rulebook that says otherwise. I umpire softball up to the college level and have often seen a pitcher after throwing a really wild pitch stand back and take a couple warmup windmills and release the ball into their own glove. I've never had anyone complain.

 

Tony

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14 hours ago, Typhoon said:

 I have been UIC of the last two U10 provincial grand championships in Canada and this is the wording from Softball Canada Official Rule Book: Rule 6.1.c

"Before commencing the delivery (pitch), the pitcher: Must have both feet on the ground within 61.0 cm (24 inch) length of the pitchers plate. The hips shall be in line with first and third bases and both feet must be in contact with the pitcher's plate".     So if she is not in contact with the pitcher's plate she can practice her windup all she wants. I can find nothing in the rulebook that says otherwise. I umpire softball up to the college level and have often seen a pitcher after throwing a really wild pitch stand back and take a couple warmup windmills and release the ball into their own glove. I've never had anyone complain.

 

Tony

btw - the Softball Canada pitching rules are a complete cut and paste from international Official Softball Rules.  I believe ASA has done the same.

 

Are you saying that if a pitcher stood beside the rubber, simulated a full windup and pitch, then did not release the ball, but the runner on first base left thinking it was a pitch, and anticipating the ball leaving her hand, you would call the runner out for leading off?  And to be clear, I'm talking batter in box, catcher in position, umpire in position.

Rule 6.1.a says she can't take the pitching position on or NEAR the pitcher's plate without the ball.   So, what you're suggesting is, she is not allowed to stand next to the rubber without the ball and practice her windup, but if she has the ball in her hand she CAN practice her windup?   Rule 6.1.a also makes it clear that you can be in pitching position without touching the rubber, you just need to be near it.  And if you are in pitching position, you can pitch - either legally or not.

The OP was not the case of someone simply windmilling the ball into their glove behind the rubber - this is a pitcher standing beside the rubber and doing a full set, windup and windmill, doing everything but releasing the ball.    If she had released the ball to the catcher she would be called for an illegal pitch, both for violating 6.1.c and 6.3.g (both feet remain in contact before the first step) - provided the umpire had deemed batter ready to receive the pitch.

As well, typically speaking, when the pitcher is doing this angry windmill into their glove (which I've also seen many times) the catcher is not in position, the batter isn't in position, the ump isn't in position, and she is 3-4 feet from the rubber (8 foot circle), and in all other respects it doesn't look like she's actually going to pitch, and is in no way simulating a pitch (illegal or not).

Namely,  it would appear that if a pitcher gets into pitching position and makes a pitching motion, with or without the ball, on or near the rubber, and violates anything in section 6.1, it's an illegal pitch.  You can indeed take a pitching position without touching the rubber, because it is indeed possible to throw a pitch without touching the rubber - that pitch would be ruled illegal.  And it is illegal to go through a full windup and not release the ball.  (6.3.a)

Most important is the line that immediately follows section 8 - any infraction of chapter six sections 1-8 is an illegal pitch.   That would include 1.c.  Nothing in the OP would qualify for section 10 (No Pitch).

As stated, in the context of U10/10U - first step is "don't do that".

 I have the Softball Canada rule book in my hands and can read it too. I have had the UIC for U16 Provincials tell me that a run didn't count because the batter made the third out SLIDING INTO THIRD BASE.   And I have had a different UIC for the U18 Provincials tell me there is no catcher's box so there is no balk for the catcher standing behind the batter's box to receive an intentional walk.  So, forgive me for not immediately thinking your UIC status makes you qualified.  You may indeed be right and fully qualified, but I do know Canadian softball umpires and UIC's that would disagree with your assessment.  

In the end, I'd be curious if there are case plays or directives, because it's a "different" scenario not explicitly defined, but could be inferred.  It is illegal to throw a pitch from beside/behind/in front of the rubber.  And it is illegal to, while touching the rubber, do a full pitch motion and not release the ball.  My simple conclusion is it is illegal to throw a pitch from beside/behind/in front of the rubber whether you release the ball or not.

 

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The pitcher can do that all she wants. While it is is true that the catcher must be in position in order for the pitcher to be considered to be in pitching position, the pitcher must also be in position. 

As far as calling out runners for leaving early, that would be invoking the circle violation rule. That rule is off when F1 is out of the circle, or threatening a play. The simple act of holding her arm up like she is going to throw is enough. Runners are not only allowed to leave the base with out being called out, they are free to advance at their own risk once F1 starts the wind up, since she is not on the plate. 

As far as distracting the batter, she needs to get over that. 

As long as there is no pitch, there is nothing to be done, with the only exception being that the pitch has a 20 second limit to deliver the pitch once she receives it or is told play ball. 

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26 minutes ago, Guest cjk said:

The pitcher can do that all she wants. While it is is true that the catcher must be in position in order for the pitcher to be considered to be in pitching position, the pitcher must also be in position. 

Yes, and anything on or near the rubber, with the ball, is in position.  Since you can be called for an illegal pitch for pitching when not in contact with the rubber.

As well, if you are on the rubber, and start a pitch, and then never release the ball, that is also an illegal pitch.

So, pitching from off the rubber is an illegal pitch, and starting a pitch from the rubber, but not releasing the ball, is an illegal pitch, why would starting a pitch from off the rubber, but not releasing the ball, not be an illegal pitch?

There are many cases where an illegal "pitch" is called where the pitcher has not thrown the ball...in fact, not even started the windup.

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