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humanbackstop19

Opening night in Iowa, dropped third strike

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I was coaching a JV game last night on opening night in Iowa.  While on offense, our BR with nobody on base strikes out on a curve ball.  The pitch hits the catcher in the chest protector and bounces 35 feet up the first base line.  The BR turns and take probably 5 steps towards the dugout.  As catcher is giving chase, I yell at my BR to RUN, RUN, RUN!  PU snaps back, "He's out!" The catcher was still chasing the ball.  I responded with, "No, he's not.  He has until he enters the dugout area," (referring to that situation since it was only the first out) which the BR was still 25 feet from.  PU rips his mask off, takes a couple steps towards me and yells, "No he doesn't, that's a SOFTBALL rule!"  I could do nothing more than shake my head.  

Rule citation: FED 8-4-1 (i), and this situation is explained in more detail in this year's case book.  

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BrianC14    422

I know it's FED rules, but this is one (of many) that needs to change, and hopefully not 10 years from now.   Your batter was clearly:  1) giving himself up; 2) not aware of the D3K rule; 3) just not paying attention; 4) a combination of the previous three.   I'd like to take Maxwell's Silver Hammer to the FED rule book.   

grimes.jpg

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noumpere    2,412

Based on your profie, are yoou also an umpire in this umpire's association?

 

Then it *mi8ght* be appropriate to approach the umpire after the game, and seek clarification.  "I understand it's a softball rule; and I think it's also a pro (OBR) baseball and NCAA baseball rule.  But I thought that in HS the runner had until the dugout.  Can we look it up just so we know for sure for next time?"

 

Not all umpires will appreciate this -- some might.  And, raise it (in the same manner) to the assigner.

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stkjock    272

Fed is the only rule set with the dugout set as the spot giving himself up (so to speak) OBR, NCAA and LL are all the "dirt circle" correct?

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stevis    86
39 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Fed is the only rule set with the dugout set as the spot giving himself up (so to speak) OBR, NCAA and LL are all the "dirt circle" correct?

LL is the dugout as well.   LL fields with an actual dirt circle are...well, I won't say rare because I'm sure there are some areas with nice, well-tended complexes.   But it certainly can't be assumed at this level that there will be one.

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Rich Ives    956
54 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Fed is the only rule set with the dugout set as the spot giving himself up (so to speak) OBR, NCAA and LL are all the "dirt circle" correct?

LL is dugout

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stkjock    272
10 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

LL is dugout

 

25 minutes ago, stevis said:

LL is the dugout as well.   LL fields with an actual dirt circle are...well, I won't say rare because I'm sure there are some areas with nice, well-tended complexes.   But it certainly can't be assumed at this level that there will be one.

thanks gents, I had a brain freeze there.  I actually looked up the rule 2 weeks back for clarification and had a "senior moment" :D

 

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VolUmp    212
21 minutes ago, scrounge said:

wait, you just *now* started the season?

I think he meant opening night for JV summer ball.

This is, in fact, one of FED's leftover stupidest non-rule-changes that should have followed MLB ten years ago.

For a while it was called the "AJ" rule (Doug Eddings' blatant crappy call) until it was published that the rule had already been changed and approved for the 2006 season prior to the incident with AJ Pierzynski in the 2005 ACLS vs. the Angels.

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Jimurray    542
9 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I think he meant opening night for JV summer ball.

This is, in fact, one of FED's leftover stupidest non-rule-changes that should have followed MLB ten years ago.

For a while it was called the "AJ" rule (Doug Eddings' blatant crappy call) until it was published that the rule had already been changed and approved for the 2006 season prior to the incident with AJ Pierzynski in the 2005 ACLS vs. the Angels.

That rule, along with allowing the pitcher to go to his mouth on the dirt, where both changed to speed up the game. No other reason given when they were changed.

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Panther32    22
13 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I think he meant opening night for JV summer ball.

This is, in fact, one of FED's leftover stupidest non-rule-changes that should have followed MLB ten years ago.

For a while it was called the "AJ" rule (Doug Eddings' blatant crappy call) until it was published that the rule had already been changed and approved for the 2006 season prior to the incident with AJ Pierzynski in the 2005 ACLS vs. the Angels.

Nope, last night was opening day for high school baseball in Iowa, regardless of level.

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VolUmp    212
2 minutes ago, Panther32 said:

Nope, last night was opening day for high school baseball in Iowa, regardless of level.

What month is it in Iowa?

What month does Iowa celebrate Christmas, March?

Was the flooding the reason behind no spring baseball, or this standard?

Opening night on the week of Finals?  Or do kids start school in June in Iowa?

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Panther32    22
12 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

What month is it in Iowa?

What month does Iowa celebrate Christmas, March?

Was the flooding the reason behind no spring baseball, or this standard?

Opening night on the week of Finals?  Or do kids start school in June in Iowa?

This is standard, we're the only state that plays summer baseball. School starts in August. The state tournament will wrap up in late July.

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VolUmp    212
10 minutes ago, Panther32 said:

This is standard, we're the only state that plays summer baseball. School starts in August. The state tournament will wrap up in late July.

Gotcha.  I have many friends in Iowa, and I absolutely never heard this.  Is the reason behind it that it's just too time consuming with their schooling and homework, because I couldn't argue with that.  Our high school (my two HS kids don't play) plays 5-6 days per week, and the coach is only interested in whether they are "passing" their classes.  If they have a strong "D," they're good to go.  Unbelievable.

The day after a school gets knocked out of the post season, summer ball starts around here.  I've got 12 games over the long weekend for kids who get out of school this Wednesday (tomorrow) and just finished their baseball seasons from 4 days to two weeks ago.

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Jimurray    542
1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

LL is dugout

LL is and was the dugout as was OBR and NCAA until OBR changed to the circle for pace of play and NCAA followed OBR for that reason or maybe the AJ incident influenced them. LL has not updated their book to current OBR for quite a while. Which is why we have to require F1 to step off the dirt to go to the mouth, why a double hit with a batter in the box can be an out literally or a foul by interp. The absence of a dirt circle on LL fields should not be a reason to continue to use the dugout. OBR addresses that with umpire judgement.

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noumpere    2,412
2 hours ago, VolUmp said:

What month is it in Iowa?

What month does Iowa celebrate Christmas, March?

Was the flooding the reason behind no spring baseball, or this standard?

Opening night on the week of Finals?  Or do kids start school in June in Iowa?

Once you start umpiring, you'll know that  IA plays the HS season in the summer.

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VolUmp    212
6 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Once you start umpiring, you'll know that  IA plays the HS season in the summer.

Please develop your own material.  That's plagarism.

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On 5/23/2017 at 8:06 AM, noumpere said:

Based on your profie, are yoou also an umpire in this umpire's association?

 

Then it *mi8ght* be appropriate to approach the umpire after the game, and seek clarification.  "I understand it's a softball rule; and I think it's also a pro (OBR) baseball and NCAA baseball rule.  But I thought that in HS the runner had until the dugout.  Can we look it up just so we know for sure for next time?"

 

Not all umpires will appreciate this -- some might.  And, raise it (in the same manner) to the assigner.

We both umpire high school in the same area and the same levels of competition.  However, there is no local association.  It sucks, but attempts to put one together have failed.  

 

Having been around this umpire before, I knew that approach would not end well.  I thought about bringing it up as I handed him some ice after taking a shot to the forearm on a foul ball, but history of watching this guy work many games told me better.  He also works HS softball, and probably did mix up the rules, or he just tried getting one past me.  Either way, he was there for a paycheck, not for love of the game or making sure the kids get a fair game.  Experienced coaches can easily tell when that's the case.  I agree, most good umpires would be receptive to a gentle approach and question, then go do their homework.  The BEST umpires will admit when they're wrong............on the next date they see the coach.    

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udbrky    240
On 5/23/2017 at 10:08 AM, VolUmp said:

What month is it in Iowa?

What month does Iowa celebrate Christmas, March?

Was the flooding the reason behind no spring baseball, or this standard?

Opening night on the week of Finals?  Or do kids start school in June in Iowa?

My Dad's family is from about 2 hours north of Des Moines and we had so much bad weather at Christmas, we started getting together in September.

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Fed is the only rule set with the dugout set as the spot giving himself up (so to speak) OBR, NCAA and LL are all the "dirt circle" correct?




HS and LL. Rule is you must step off the playing field i.e. Dugout. Not the dirt circle or or in foul territory



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