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VolUmp
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FED

Offense down 3-2. Two outs. R3 tries to score on WP. F1 tags him out. I make call from 3BLX.

HC: "Did he not make it?"

Me: "He made it."

HC: "And he was out?"

Me: "Yes."

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Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here (pointing) ... called 3rd Base Line Extended."

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

Edited by VolUmp
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Throw came from backstop on the 3B side — my guess is 15 feet off center.

So, by your closing remark, just allow the coach to accuse you of missing the call half an inning later with no verbal warning nor response, correct KenBAZ?

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I don't really understand your response to the first set of questions. Why would you tell him he made it if he's already out? Did he mean slide short of the base or something? Perhaps a little more detail up front would help - you certainly don't need to give him a dissertation, but saying something like "John, he tagged him on the leg before his hand touched the plate" would help. Coach certainly might not agree, but that's a different subject.

As to the second set, a verbal warning (even if informal/quiet) like "John, we already talked about that play, we're not going to rehash it" would be entirely appropriate. If he persists...we escalate as necessary.

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3 hours ago, scrounge said:

Why would you tell him he made it if he's already out

"He made it" doesn't mean he's safe ... it means he slid until he touched the plate. He did "not" slide short.

Does, "The ball beat him!" mean he's out?

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15 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

"Skip (or first name, better):  we already discussed that play, and it's not getting revisited."

Since this is in the HS section, "Skip" [= manager] is probably not appropriate. We use "Coach" or his first name.

17 minutes ago, scrounge said:

As to the second set, a verbal warning (even if informal/quiet) like "John, we already talked about that play, we're not going to rehash it" would be entirely appropriate. If he persists...we escalate as necessary.

I think the point of the OP is to ask about the game management issue posed by the coach re-raising a judgment call. Your answer is fine; sometimes, if he's a dîck, I'll say, "I'm not here for a history lesson. Let's play ball."

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2 minutes ago, maven said:

Sometimes, if he's a dîck, I'll say, "I'm not here for a history lesson. Let's play ball."

So, Maven, no special circumstance that not only is he presuming I admitted to missing the call, "Then how did you miss it?" but he's accusing me of being out of position … about which he knows nothing … and is criticizing the official for not knowing "how" to officiate?

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8 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

So, Maven, no special circumstance that not only is he presuming I admitted to missing the call, "Then how did you miss it?" but he's accusing me of being out of position … about which he knows nothing … and is criticizing the official for not knowing "how" to officiate?

Special? No. I get this several times per season. Coaches think they're being clever, and the mechanics "question" isn't. It's a setup for their big punchline.

I recommend addressing it like any other obnoxious coach behavior.

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14 minutes ago, maven said:

I recommend addressing it like any other obnoxious coach behavior.

Understood.

it was a Regional elimination game, so I really didn't want to restrict him, but a verbal warning and ignoring the question would probably have been best.

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I'm sure guys have a lot of responses to such "cleverness." Another I'll use is, "Do you have a real question, or can we get back to baseball now?" This acknowledges the argumentative asshattery without engaging it (we never argue judgment calls).

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Throw came from backstop on the 3B side — my guess is 15 feet off center.
So, by your closing remark, just allow the coach to accuse you of missing the call half an inning later with no verbal warning nor response, correct KenBAZ?

Where the throw was coming from would effect where I was to make the call. Sounds like you where right where you'd want to be. I might get rotated a bit into fair but it establishes that the coach is less then knowledgeable about umpire mechanics.

I would have like to not say anything in response to the coach's remarks a half inning later. However I don't yet have that much command of myself. I'd like to think I'd of said something like, "I was right where I was supposed to be and I got it right, now let it go".

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, VolUmp said:

FED

Offense down 3-2. Two outs. R3 tries to score on WP. F1 tags him out. I make call from 3BLX.

HC: "Did he not make it?"

Me: "He made it."

HC: "And he was out?"

Me: "Yes."

----------------------------------

Half inning later ...

HC: "Can you try to get in the right position for that play at home next time?"

Me: "Coach, I was in the right position ... right here ... called 3BLX.

HC: "Then how did you miss it?"

Me: "I didn't"

----------------------------------

What is the proper reply/reaction, and then I'll hear what Maven says.

 

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4 hours ago, VolUmp said:

Understood.

it was a Regional elimination game, so I really didn't want to restrict him, but a verbal warning and ignoring the question would probably have been best.

Monday or Friday?

 

I was at Maryvile Monday and Pigeon Forge Friday.  Just curious.

 

In the OP, on the second part about positioning, "Tell you what coach, I won't tell you how to coach and you don't tell me how to umpire, OK.  That's your warning."

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4 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

Me:  "I didn't.  And we're done talking about it."  

Last week I had a coach come out and question a safe call on a SB at 2B. He was civil, told me he needed that call, we're struggling, blah blah blah. I told him, "sorry you're struggling [name], but he got in before the tag. I got to call what I see." As he turns to go back, he says, "I would have appreciated it if you told me you missed the call"....I told him, "But I didn't". He stopped, turned and looked at me, thought for a second, smiled, and continued back to the dugout.

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53 minutes ago, KenBAZ said:

Sounds like you where right where you'd want to be. I might get rotated a bit into fair

Ken, this goes against everything we've learned about the new "crease" position.

On any ball coming from the field of play, YES ... late rotation to the fair side into the crease.

On a ball coming from the backstop, if I had rotated at all, I would have rotated to the left, not to the right, to be on the side from the which which the throw was coming.  Let's call it the back crease.

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14 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Ken, this goes against everything we've learned about the new "crease" position.

On any ball coming from the field of play, YES ... late rotation to the fair side into the crease.

On a ball coming from the backstop, if I had rotated at all, I would have rotated to the left, not the right, to be on the side with the crease from the which the throw was coming.

One thing's for sure:  there's a heck of a lot less time to setup on a PB/WP than there is on a play coming in from the field.   Sometimes you're lucky to get where you'd like to be on the PB/WP.

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8 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

One thing's for sure:  there's a heck of a lot less time to setup on a PB/WP than there is on a play coming in from the field.   Sometimes you're lucky to get where you'd like to be on the PB/WP.

True. When the ball kicks to the 3B side and you get to "open the gate" by moving your left foot back, it takes you to that 3BLX. If you have to open the other way, there's no chance getting 3BLX.

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1 minute ago, Richvee said:

True. When the ball kicks to the 3B side and you get to "open the gate" by moving your left foot back, it takes you to that 3BLX. If you have to open the other way, there's no chance getting 3BLX.

And the ever-present issue of so many backstops that carom the ball in a most disadvantageous way.... I've had my share of small fields this spring, and have been hit in the back of the legs on a few occasions ....  it's a 50-50 chance of wheeling into the right spot. 

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9 minutes ago, BrianC14 said:

it's a 50-50 chance of wheeling into the right spot.

True.  Fortunately this was a High School field with a full size 58' behind home plate.  The only reason the play was close was because the runner started to retreat, changed his mind, and went for it too late.  Honestly, in this scenario, I had plenty of time to set and re-set if I had wanted to.

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13 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

True.  Fortunately this was a High School field with a full size 58' behind home plate.  The only reason the play was close was because the runner started to retreat, changed his mind, and went for it too late.  Honestly, in this scenario, I had plenty of time to set and re-set if I had wanted to.

It's still dependent on where the ball is as to your ability to get in the optimum position. You can't get in the path of the throw.

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Just now, Richvee said:

Care to explain your astonishment?

Rich, I'm just poking at you a bit.  OBVIOUSLY it matters where the ball is.  I already explained where the ball was, and was making the point that I could have re-set to another position if I felt I was going to block the throw because I had plenty of time with the runner going, retreating, then going again. 

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