Ground Rule

[Jimurray]

Would you allow a ground rule allowing a HR at this field if a ball hit above the yellow line painted on the scoreboard structure inside the fence? Nevermind the 1 foot inside foulpoles.

This year?  When NCAA added the bold: "Ground Rules
SECTION 5. A local ground rule may be adopted where unusual conditions
prevail if agreeable with the visiting team. No ground rule shall conflict with
the official playing rules.Where the teams do not agree, ground rules shall be
determined by the umpires. It is recommended that ground rules be posted in
each dugout."

Previous years? When the bold was not there.

[White47]

I don't see why I wouldn't. But I am looking at it on my phone and it's hard to see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, White47 said:

I don't see why I wouldn't. But I am looking at it on my phone and it's hard to see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then tell me what you think when you get a better look at it. Moderator, I edited and rotated the picture right side up on my computer but it shows sideways here. Anything we can do about it?

[BrianC14]

I would allow it, but we're darn sure going to discuss it as a local ground rule at the plate conference.

[ElkOil]

Yeah, I'd allow it. We do the same thing for trees that overhang the wall and the occasions when the foul poles and screens are inside the fence, rather than outside. If a ball in flight hits the scoreboard, it was going to be out if the board wasn't there. But everyone needs to be on the same page during the plate conference.

But they even painted a line on the bottom of the structure to delineate dead ball territory from live ball, so I don't know how a coach could take issue with it.

[Jimurray]

10 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Yeah, I'd allow it. We do the same thing for trees that overhang the wall and the occasions when the foul poles and screens are inside the fence, rather than outside. If a ball in flight hits the scoreboard, it was going to be out if the board wasn't there. But everyone needs to be on the same page during the plate conference.

But they even painted a line on the bottom of the structure to delineate dead ball territory from live ball, so I don't know how a coach could take issue with it.

So a ground rule can supercede a book rule? And did they make the grass, make that dirt, under the yellow line dead?

[ElkOil]

13 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

So a ground rule can supercede a book rule? And did they make the grass under the yellow line dead?

Typically, all grass on any field delineates dead ball territory.

I fixed the pic, BTW.

[White47]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Then tell me what you think when you get a better look at it. Moderator, I edited and rotated the picture right side up on my computer but it shows sideways here. Anything we can do about it?

I've looked at it on a bigger screen now. My feeling are still the same. If all is well at the plate meeting I'm rolling with it, And even if it not I'm probably setting the ground rules that way as the UIC. Could you imagine trying to decide a HR  or 2 bagger on a ball that hits on top of that things. 

assuming this is a college field and its been around for a while, if no one has had a problem with it in X amount of years, its probably not a pot that I'm willing to stir in the first place. If umpires or visiting teams have had a problem with it it would have probably been fixed by this point. 

[MidAmUmp]

I don't see anything wrong with it.

But assuming that you do have a problem with it...what are you going to do?

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, MidAmUmp said:

I don't see anything wrong with it.

But assuming that you do have a problem with it...what are you going to do?

Since NCAA put in the bolded clause, I would have a ball off the scoreboard structure live unless it went out of play. Just as with the foulpoles inside the wall. 

[MidAmUmp]

10 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Since NCAA put in the bolded clause, I would have a ball off the scoreboard structure live unless it went out of play. Just as with the foulpoles inside the wall. 

Or maybe just contact your supervisor and let them handle it ???

[scrounge]

Scoreboard looks like it's above/behind the wall to me, only possible issue looks like that shelf IF you insist on going there. I wouldn't.

[Jimurray]

7 minutes ago, MidAmUmp said:

Or maybe just contact your supervisor and let them handle it ???

So you would be good at a plate conference if both coaches agreed that since the dugout is safe their ground rule allows a fielder to step into a dugout. You would just run it by your supervisor afterward?

[MidAmUmp]

First of all, there's nothing wrong with it. As has already been stated...trees hang over the fence sometimes and we consider them a home run. The scoreboard is above the yellow line. That's a home run.

If I had a problem with a ground rule but both coaches agreed to them, we would play the game according to the ground rules given and I would then contact my supervisor after the game and turn the situation over to him. That's what he gets paid for...not me.

I would assume the bolded part of the rule you're hung up on was inserted due to the fact that some places want to play catch/carry/throw from the dugout and the NCAA eliminated all of that this year.

The NCAA isn't going to make a team/site tear down a scoreboard and move it back.

[Jimurray]

18 minutes ago, MidAmUmp said:

First of all, there's nothing wrong with it. As has already been stated...trees hang over the fence sometimes and we consider them a home run. The scoreboard is above the yellow line. That's a home run.

If I had a problem with a ground rule but both coaches agreed to them, we would play the game according to the ground rules given and I would then contact my supervisor after the game and turn the situation over to him. That's what he gets paid for...not me.

I would assume the bolded part of the rule you're hung up on was inserted due to the fact that some places want to play catch/carry/throw from the dugout and the NCAA eliminated all of that this year.

The NCAA isn't going to make a team/site tear down a scoreboard and move it back.

That field is gonna get a new scoreboard, but probably not because of a ground rule issue. If proposed ground rules violate book rules at a plate conference I have no problem correcting them. I'm not going to judge if a fly ball hit the, one foot inside, foul pole above or below a certain line.

[MidAmUmp]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

That field is gonna get a new scoreboard, but probably not because of a ground rule issue. If proposed ground rules violate book rules at a plate conference I have no problem correcting them. I'm not going to judge if a fly ball hit the, one foot inside, foul pole above or below a certain line.

Nor do I have a problem correcting a ground rule that violates an NCAA rule, but this is not the case in the photo you've posted.

Now, if their ground rule is if a ball hits the scoreboard in flight it's a ground rule triple, then that's in violation of NCAA rules and I would correct that.

[Jimurray]

50 minutes ago, MidAmUmp said:

Nor do I have a problem correcting a ground rule that violates an NCAA rule, but this is not the case in the photo you've posted.

Now, if their ground rule is if a ball hits the scoreboard in flight it's a ground rule triple, then that's in violation of NCAA rules and I would correct that.

I can't see calling a batted ball that hits that scoreboard structure, all inside the fence (wall) as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight. I also can't see calling a batted ball that hits an inside foul pole as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight.

[White47]

I can't see calling a batted ball that hits that scoreboard structure, all inside the fence (wall) as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight. I also can't see calling a batted ball that hits an inside foul pole as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight.

This field ,I'm sure, has been this way for some time. I also doubt too many have taken issue with either of those ( I could be wrong). if I'm at the field as UIC I'm playing by the ground rules set by school unless its something crazy, like MidAmUmp's ground rule triple example. I don't see a lot you can do. Sometimes precedents wins the day. 

In OP: "Play Ball!!," that not a battle I'm willing to fight. 

 

[scrounge]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

I can't see calling a batted ball that hits that scoreboard structure, all inside the fence (wall) as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight. I also can't see calling a batted ball that hits an inside foul pole as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight.

Dude, I don't mean this snarkily at all, but you're tilting at windmills here. Also, except for that little shelf, the scoreboard doesn't look inside at all (or if it is, just barely) but rather above it. It's commonplace for things like that to be over the wall and considered out.

Heck, it's commonplace for things even over and inside the wall to be defined as out by ground rule. Witness the baskets at Wrigley Field - they're actually UNDER the top of the fence. It's still a HR.

[Jimurray]

10 minutes ago, scrounge said:

Dude, I don't mean this snarkily at all, but you're tilting at windmills here. Also, except for that little shelf, the scoreboard doesn't look inside at all (or if it is, just barely) but rather above it. It's commonplace for things like that to be over the wall and considered out.

Heck, it's commonplace for things even over and inside the wall to be defined as out by ground rule. Witness the baskets at Wrigley Field - they're actually UNDER the top of the fence. It's still a HR.

What baskets at Wrigley are you talking about? https://groundrules.mlb.com/cubs/index.html

When a coach tells me everything is outside at his field I'm good with it. But not when foul poles and such are so obvious. Maybe the conference authorizes such a ground rule but otherwise I won't.

[stkjock]

the upward sloping fences on the wall.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/rX4VKTJaDJdsCrQnOTwUgQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9NTI3/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/51f976c1a95c44e52974aa484147b98e

[MidAmUmp]

2 hours ago, Jimurray said:

What baskets at Wrigley are you talking about? https://groundrules.mlb.com/cubs/index.html

When a coach tells me everything is outside at his field I'm good with it. But not when foul poles and such are so obvious. Maybe the conference authorizes such a ground rule but otherwise I won't.

That's why I said you turn it over to the conference supervisor and let him deal with it.

Don't be "that guy".

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, stkjock said:

the upward sloping fences on the wall.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/rX4VKTJaDJdsCrQnOTwUgQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzQ0O2g9NTI3/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/51f976c1a95c44e52974aa484147b98e

If MLB can have a home run over that yellow and keep a ball in play that hits under that yellow then Kokernot Field can have their HR ground rule. I will stand corrected.

[BrianC14]

 

[JSam21]

On 5/10/2017 at 0:07 PM, Jimurray said:

I can't see calling a batted ball that hits that scoreboard structure, all inside the fence (wall) as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight. I also can't see calling a batted ball that hits an inside foul pole as a ball that has gone over the fence in flight.

So would you have had an issue with calling balls home runs that would go into the baskets in Wrigley Field and other stadiums in the 70s and 80s?