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calablue

defensive visits

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In OBR, is there any rule that limits how many times per inning a coach can go out and confer with his defense?  I am referring to visits that are not to the mound, do not include the pitcher, and no one goes to the pitcher before the next pitch or play.

 

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For OBR there is no restriction I can find in either the rules or the interps but then it isn't done in the pros anyhow. Plays are signaled in.

In LL, FED, and NCAA rules any visit counts a visit to the pitcher.

 

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I ask because I work mostly Babe Ruth / Cal Ripken, which uses OBR w/modifications an can't find anything in the book on it.  I'm starting to see it more often and think it is being used as a stall tactic to eliminate the possibility of starting a new inning due to time limits.  Oh well, if it's not illegal it's legal.  I guess the league will have to handle it.

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Might be legal, but even if so, must an umpire permit it? Does an umpire have to grant a coach's request every time the coach asks? 

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10 minutes ago, LRZ said:

Might be legal, but even if so, must an umpire permit it? Does an umpire have to grant a coach's request every time the coach asks? 

I don't see where it's optional

5.12 Calling “Time” and Dead Balls

(b) (5.10) The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls “Time.”
The umpire-in-chief shall call “Time:

(4) When a manager requests “Time” for a substitution, or
for a conference with one of his players.

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That is a LL rule, right, Rich? What about OBR, the (modified) rule set in the OP? Unless I've overlooked it, I don't think there is the same or similar provision in OBR. 

A tangential point: in law, "shall" does not always mean a mandatory duty but a "will do" instruction. How do we read "shall" (as mandatory) in light of a manager having to "request" time? Treat the request as a grant and reduce the umpire's role to merely perfunctory? Then "request" isn't the appropriate word. That doesn't seem correct.

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7 hours ago, LRZ said:

That is a LL rule, right, Rich? What about OBR, the (modified) rule set in the OP? Unless I've overlooked it, I don't think there is the same or similar provision in OBR. 

A tangential point: in law, "shall" does not always mean a mandatory duty but a "will do" instruction. How do we read "shall" (as mandatory) in light of a manager having to "request" time? Treat the request as a grant and reduce the umpire's role to merely perfunctory? Then "request" isn't the appropriate word. That doesn't seem correct.

The OBR and LL rules are the same on the shall bit.

Shall means shall.  Not liking it doesn't change it.

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How is this not a visit?

Once a  defensive coach asks/ is granted time and crosses the foul line-- or has a player come to him and then go to other players-- that is a trip in my book.

Or are we confusing this with an offensive conference?

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Unless he is tending to an injured player anytime the coach crosses foul line I've got it as a visit. Which you get one each inning in OBR.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

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21 minutes ago, White47 said:

Unless he is tending to an injured player anytime the coach crosses foul line I've got it as a visit. Which you get one each inning in OBR.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Actually you are allowed one visit per pitcher per inning in OBR.

According to the MLBUM a visit begins when the manager crosses the foul line.

Second trip requires removing him.

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Actually you are allowed one visit per pitcher per inning.
Second trip requires removing him.

Your right, my bad.


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The restriction is on visits to the pitcher or to another player who then immediately goes to the pitcher. 

And if the visit starts when the foul line is crossed then the manager can go to the line and confer with any player other than the pitcher then I would contend that it doesn't count either by rule or interp.

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3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

The restriction is on visits to the pitcher or to another player who then immediately goes to the pitcher. 

And if the visit starts when the foul line is crossed then the manager can go to the line and confer with any player other than the pitcher then I would contend that it doesn't count either by rule or interp.

And if he wants to die on that hill, if the player crosses the foul line, I'm calling it a substitution.

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11 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

The restriction is on visits to the pitcher or to another player who then immediately goes to the pitcher. 

And if the visit starts when the foul line is crossed then the manager can go to the line and confer with any player other than the pitcher then I would contend that it doesn't count either by rule or interp.

So if the manager wants to confer with his SS every other pitch you are going to allow that?

Then again, have you ever seen a MLB coach hold a defensive huddle with anyone that did not involve the pitcher?

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The restriction is on visits to the pitcher or to another player who then immediately goes to the pitcher. 

And if the visit starts when the foul line is crossed then the manager can go to the line and confer with any player other than the pitcher then I would contend that it doesn't count either by rule or interp.

Not saying your wrong, just never heard that interp, and I don't think that's in the spirt of the rule.

But if that's what he wants to do then I'm either not granting time or putting his pitcher on the 20 second clock. That should end that pretty quick. Stalling a game is bush league, especially when your trying to find loop holes in the rules to do it.

 

 

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