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Agree with obstruction call?


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That's OBS. the way I see it.

1. F3 F1 obviously the isn't a protected fielder

2. F1 obviously hinders BR.

3. OBS before 1B on a ground ball is immediate DB. 

4. The fact that F3 would have undoubtedly made the tag on BR is irrelevant.

Edited by Richvee
fixed #1
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20 minutes ago, Richvee said:

That's OBS. the way I see it.

1. F3 obviously the protected fielder

2. F1 obviously hinders BR.

3. OBS before 1B on a ground ball is immediate DB. 

4. The fact that F3 would have undoubtedly made the tag on BR is irrelevant.

I don't even know if we have a protected fielder at the time of OBS. F3 has the ball and he's beyond the act of fielding.

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7 minutes ago, Matt said:

I don't even know if we have a protected fielder at the time of OBS. F3 has the ball and he's beyond the act of fielding.

Good point. Fixed it :)

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16 hours ago, Richvee said:

4. The fact that F3 would have undoubtedly made the tag on BR is irrelevant.

I'm wondering about this. Isn't the same principle true as INT, that if there's no hindrance, there's no penalty? If a defensive player didn't do something that caused an out when there otherwise wouldn't have been one, do we still have OBS?

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48 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

I'm wondering about this. Isn't the same principle true as INT, that if there's no hindrance, there's no penalty? If a defensive player didn't do something that caused an out when there otherwise wouldn't have been one, do we still have OBS?

RTFM.  The ball is immediately dead in this play so there is no potential out (or error or whatever) after that.

NCAA:

1) Batter-runner is obstructed on a ground ball to an infielder.
PENALTY—The ball is dead and the batter-runner is awarded first base.

Same in OBR.

In FED the obstructed runner is automatically awarded one base.

 

 

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I'm wondering about this. Isn't the same principle true as INT, that if there's no hindrance, there's no penalty? If a defensive player didn't do something that caused an out when there otherwise wouldn't have been one, do we still have OBS?

If the runner is obstructed there is obstruction; you call it (point and say, "That's obstruction"). The runner is then protected to the next base (or however far the umpire determines he would have advanced without the obstruction). If the runner advances the to the next base the obstruction is ignored; if not, time is called and the base awarded. This is always a minimum of the next base as obstruction is a one base award, so wether or not the runner would have been put out is irrelevent.

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35 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

RTFM.  The ball is immediately dead in this play so there is no potential out (or error or whatever) after that.

NCAA:

1) Batter-runner is obstructed on a ground ball to an infielder.
PENALTY—The ball is dead and the batter-runner is awarded first base.

Same in OBR.

In FED the obstructed runner is automatically awarded one base.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Mike D said:


If the runner is obstructed there is obstruction; you call it (point and say, "That's obstruction"). The runner is then protected to the next base (or however far the umpire determines he would have advanced without the obstruction). If the runner advances the to the next base the obstruction is ignored; if not, time is called and the base awarded. This is always a minimum of the next base as obstruction is a one base award, so wether or not the runner would have been put out is irrelevent.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Perhaps I didn't eloquently state my question since both of your answers are from the perspective that obstruction had occurred. My question was more about the criteria for obstruction, and that in order for it to be called, isn't there an element of the act having to create a situation that wouldn't have otherwise existed? If it's a forgone conclusion that the BR was going to be out, what was he obstructed from? The answer here is nothing. If F1 didn't enter the picture, BR was out. So what did F1 obstruct the BR from achieving? Since it was nothing, how is there a proper OBS call?

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1 hour ago, ElkOil said:

I'm wondering about this. Isn't the same principle true as INT, that if there's no hindrance, there's no penalty? If a defensive player didn't do something that caused an out when there otherwise wouldn't have been one, do we still have OBS?

Yes, no hindrance = no OBS (and no OBS implies no penalty).

But hindrance comes to more than just enabling an out. Runners have the right to unimpeded progress around the bases. That BR in the video has the right to try to dodge a fielder making a tag attempt. Hindrance includes slowing, redirecting, and contacting a runner. We're not going to assume that the BR was going to be out anyway, so that the hindrance doesn't matter.

There's an MLB version of this play where the protected fielder and another fielder are right next to each other, and it's still OBS. Benefit of any doubt goes to the offense here.

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59 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

 

Perhaps I didn't eloquently state my question since both of your answers are from the perspective that obstruction had occurred. My question was more about the criteria for obstruction, and that in order for it to be called, isn't there an element of the act having to create a situation that wouldn't have otherwise existed? If it's a forgone conclusion that the BR was going to be out, what was he obstructed from? The answer here is nothing. If F1 didn't enter the picture, BR was out. So what did F1 obstruct the BR from achieving? Since it was nothing, how is there a proper OBS call?

Your logic applies on, for example, a fly ball -- if BR in hindered, but the ball is caught, the out stands.

 

It does not apply on a ground ball.

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Perhaps I didn't eloquently state my question since both of your answers are from the perspective that obstruction had occurred. My question was more about the criteria for obstruction, and that in order for it to be called, isn't there an element of the act having to create a situation that wouldn't have otherwise existed? If it's a forgone conclusion that the BR was going to be out, what was he obstructed from? The answer here is nothing. If F1 didn't enter the picture, BR was out. So what did F1 obstruct the BR from achieving? Since it was nothing, how is there a proper OBS call?

We can argue that the runner may most likely have been put out, but at the time of the obstruction he was not out and there situations that may have occurred where he was not put out (missed tag, dropped ball, etc.) But none of these are in the criteria for calling or not calling obstruction. The only criteria is, was the runner obstructed by a fielder without the ball.
Obstruction
SECTION 55. The act of a fielder who, while not in possession of or in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

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9 minutes ago, Matt said:

If we don't have OBS on this, it allows the defense to hedge their bet on any ground ball by putting a pick on a runner.

Ding, ding, ding !

I'm glad I saw this.  Just today I had a similar situation  (without F1 involved) and ruled 'safe' based on when F3 regained possession,  but in retrospect, I could  (should) have ruled OBS.  

 

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21 hours ago, maven said:

 

There's an MLB version of this play where the protected fielder and another fielder are right next to each other, and it's still OBS. Benefit of any doubt goes to the offense here.

<iframe src='http://m.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=35758245&topic_id=6479266&width=400&height=224&property=mlb' width='400' height='224' frameborder='0'>Your browser does not support iframes.</iframe>

If the embedding didn't work here is the link @maven I think is referring to.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v35758245/oaklaa-aybar-reaches-first-on-oteros-obstruction

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That's the one. Notice that the BR actually ran into the protected fielder: but because F3 was also in the way, and the BR dodged F3, this is OBS.

Was the BR going to be "out anyway," no matter who fielded the ball? Sure, but that's moot.

Good training video for OBS during a batted ball.

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