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mrumpiresir

Attempted Steal of Home, Catcher's Interference.

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mrumpiresir    58

The bases are loaded in this video but if there was no runner on first and the runner on second does not advance, is he awarded third on the balk?  In other words, can both the CI and the balk be enforced on the play?

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MidAmUmp    1,726

To put this thing to bed...

At the NCAA level, it's a balk & catcher's interference. R3 scores, all other runners advance on the balk & the batter is awarded 1st base on the catcher's interference.

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grayhawk    3,141

While it's a balk and CI in NCAA and OBR, and CO (no balk) in Fed, the ONLY time the result will differ is with R2 and R3 only, and R2 is not stealing.  In that case:

NCAA and OBR:  R3 scores, batter awarded first and R2 moves to third (on the balk)

FED:  R3 scores, batter awarded first and R2 stays at second (because he was not stealing).

In ALL other runner configurations (Bases loaded (whether R1 and R2 are stealing or not), R3 only, or R1 (stealing or not) and R3, or R2 and R3 with both runners stealing), the results will be exactly the same because the non-stealing runners would be forced by the batter's award of first base.

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Rich Ives    956
4 minutes ago, mrumpiresir said:

The bases are loaded in this video but if there was no runner on first and the runner on second does not advance, is he awarded third on the balk?  In other words, can both the CI and the balk be enforced on the play?

 

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ALStripes17    556
The bases are loaded in this video but if there was no runner on first and the runner on second does not advance, is he awarded third on the balk?  In other words, can both the CI and the balk be enforced on the play?

NCAA and OBR provide for CI and balk provisions on this play.


FED only provides for CO penalty (runners aren't stealing/forced, they don't advance).

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ricka56    1,062
11 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not in FED.

I didn't there'd be a rule diff here. What would it be in Fed ? What's the penalty ?

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Matt    1,194
4 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

I didn't there'd be a rule diff here. What would it be in Fed ? What's the penalty ?

It's not considered a balk, therefore only runners attempting to advance are awarded a base, unless forced.

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ricka56    1,062
1 minute ago, Matt said:

It's not considered a balk, therefore only runners attempting to advance are awarded a base, unless forced.

huh ... 8.3.1b ... had forgotten that ... thanx 

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KenBAZ    377

The balk is on F2 for leaving his box too soon? I have F2 obstructing the Batter. If it were a balk in Fed then whatever happened afterwards would not matter right?

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ricka56    1,062
6 minutes ago, KenBAZ said:

The balk is on F2 for leaving his box too soon? I have F2 obstructing the Batter. If it were a balk in Fed then whatever happened afterwards would not matter right?

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I think the balk is for failure to deliver a pitch to the plate
It's similar to a pitch slip that doesn't cross the foul line is a balk.

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ElkOil    694
2 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

I think the balk is for failure to deliver a pitch to the plate

Since the catcher wasn't in his box during the pitch, I'd balk it for that. In Fed, the ball is dead immediately, so nothing else that happened after that counts... unless you call MC on the runner.

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Matt    1,194
8 minutes ago, KenBAZ said:

The balk is on F2 for leaving his box too soon? I have F2 obstructing the Batter. If it were a balk in Fed then whatever happened afterwards would not matter right?

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Nope.

It is simply charged a balk when there is R3 attempting to score, by rule, and all balk penalties apply. This is only in NCAA and OBR.

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Matt    1,194
1 minute ago, ElkOil said:

Since the catcher wasn't in his box during the pitch, I'd balk it for that. In Fed, the ball is dead immediately, so nothing else that happened after that counts... unless you call MC on the runner.

Again, no. There is no balk for this in FED. A catcher can leave the box anytime he wants after the time of the pitch.

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KenBAZ    377
Nope.
It is simply charged a balk when there is R3 attempting to score, by rule, and all balk penalties apply. This is only in NCAA and OBR.

What is simply charged a balk? F2 leaving his box?

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Matt    1,194
Just now, KenBAZ said:


What is simply charged a balk? F2 leaving his box?

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I really can't get any clearer than what you quoted. CI with R3 attempting to score is charged as a balk in NCAA and OBR.

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Tborze    16
1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not in FED.

Matt,

Can you clarify this for me?  In OBR, both penalties are enforced?  So, since R3 was out, he would return on the balk and the batter would be awarded 1B on the CI, bases loaded?  If safe on the play, the run would score, runners on 1st and 2nd?

In FED, we would have CO. Because R3 was stealing he would score, award batter 1B.  Runner at 2nd remains. 

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Matt    1,194
3 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

But the catcher can't deny the batter the opportunity to hit the ball.  That's interference or obstruction in FED.

Yes. And only interference/obstruction. No balk.

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Jimurray    542

Looks like the batter was coached to take a safe swing to avoid the spurious argument that he had his bat on his shoulder and thus the catcher did not hinder him.

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Matt    1,194
2 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Matt,

Can you clarify this for me?  In OBR, both penalties are enforced?  So, since R3 was out, he would return on the balk and the batter would be awarded 1B on the CI, bases loaded?  If safe on the play, the run would score, runners on 1st and 2nd?

In FED, we would have CO. Because R3 was stealing he would score, award batter 1B.  Runner at 2nd remains. 

In OBR, the balk penalty is enforced (advancing all runners) AND the CI penalty (awarding the batter 1B) unless the situation somehow happens where it would be ignored. So, all runners advance.

In FED, you are correct. 

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Tborze    16
4 minutes ago, Matt said:

In OBR, the balk penalty is enforced (advancing all runners) AND the CI penalty (awarding the batter 1B) unless the situation somehow happens where it would be ignored. So, all runners advance.

In FED, you are correct. 

Thank You!

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Tborze    16
7 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Looks like the batter was coached to take a safe swing to avoid the spurious argument that he had his bat on his shoulder and thus the catcher did not hinder him.

I saw the same thing. He should also be taught to get the hell out of the way too. He almost got his leg broke! 

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MooseLoop    38

Can someone please cite the OBR rule or interpretation that says catcher's interference on a steal of home is a balk?  I neither see a balk here nor see an umpire calling a balk.  The ball did not slip out of the pitcher's hand, he was not giving an intentional walk.  Seems like straightforward CI, batter gets first, and all other runners advance as forced.  Then the coach has an option to take the play instead of the penalty.  Since the runner was out, the coach would take the penalty that forces his R3 to score.

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Rich Ives    956
41 minutes ago, Tborze said:

Matt,

Can you clarify this for me?  In OBR, both penalties are enforced?  So, since R3 was out, he would return on the balk and the batter would be awarded 1B on the CI, bases loaded?  If safe on the play, the run would score, runners on 1st and 2nd?

In FED, we would have CO. Because R3 was stealing he would score, award batter 1B.  Runner at 2nd remains. 

6.01(g) (7.07) Interference With Squeeze Play or Steal
of Home
If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a
squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or
in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the
batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter
shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

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