Verbalize obstruction?

[Tborze]

FED

R1&R2. 2 outs, top of the 7th, tie game. I'm BU in C

Wild pitch, R2 going to 3rd. Throw from F2 is short and off line. F5 comes up the line, about 6', to field it and is unsuccessful, ball goes into LF. F5 is laying on the ground straddling the line as R2 is rounding 3rd base turning to locate the ball. The ball is bobbled by F7 who is backing up the throw, and the 3rd base coach sends R2 home. F5, who starts to get up, stops and lays back down as he sees R2 running at him on his way home. 

Here is where it gets interesting. As R2 jumps over F5, I just pointed (didn't verbalized) at the obstruction and looked at my partner.  At the time, I didn't think R2 was going to go, and if he would have just retreated back to 3rd, didn't feel giving him home would have been warranted. 

But anyway, he did go. Was a banger at the plate and my P nailed it. Runner with a nice slide and the catcher missed the tag. "Safe" whew!

My questions are: 

1. if the runner would have been called out, would I have been justified in awarding the runner home based on the OBS without verbalizing it?

2. Should I have verbalized it at the time of the OBS? 

 

[Replacematt]

1 minute ago, Tborze said:

FED

R1&R2. 2 outs, top of the 7th, tie game. I'm BU in C

Wild pitch, R2 going to 3rd. Throw from F2 is short and off line. F5 comes up the line, about 6', to field it and is unsuccessful, ball goes into LF. F5 is laying on the ground straddling the line as R2 is rounding 3rd base turning to locate the ball. The ball is bobbled by F7 who is backing up the throw, and the 3rd base coach sends R2 home. F5, who starts to get up, stops and lays back down as he sees R2 running at him on his way home. 

Here is where it gets interesting. As R2 jumps over F5, I just pointed (didn't verbalized) at the obstruction and looked at my partner.  At the time, I didn't think R2 was going to go, and if he would have just retreated back to 3rd, didn't feel giving him home would have been warranted. 

But anyway, he did go. Was a banger at the plate and my P nailed it. Runner with a nice slide and the catcher missed the tag. "Safe" whew!

My questions are: 

1. if the runner would have been called out, would I have been justified in awarding the runner home based on the OBS without verbalizing it?

2. Should I have verbalized it at the time of the OBS? 

 

Yes to both.

[MadMax]

@Matt is right, @Tborze, but there are two things jumping out here to consider... 

1. You stated this is a Fed game. With this, there isn't any ambiguity on whether or not an award of home was warranted. Once you signal obstruction (by pointing at it, and trust me, a coach somewhere saw you point), the award is an additional base; thus, it's the plate.
2. You were correct in not killing the play (some umpires have been known to, mistaking it for Interference), as the incoming throw may have been cut off and redirected to make a play upon R1 or BR, which the defense has a right to attempt as they have conceded the play against the obstructed runner (R2).

EDIT: As I posted this, I suddenly realized a potential fallout from this play that has me thinking...

So, I present to @maven, @noumpere, @Matt, etc. – If the OBS does occur, and R2 is impeded and slowed from contact by F5 in reaching the plate, and the incoming throw comes in and is cut off, only to be redirected to tag R1 or BR (assume he has touched 1B successfully) before R2 touches HP, what do we (as umpires) judge regarding this? Do we score the run and allow the Out? Do we score the run, negate the out and place runners? Something else?

Edited April 18, 2017 by MadMax
Thought about a potential alternate result of this play

[Replacematt]

23 minutes ago, MadMax said:

@Matt is right, @Tborze, but there are two things jumping out here to consider... 

1. You stated this is a Fed game. With this, there isn't any ambiguity on whether or not an award of home was warranted. Once you signal obstruction (by pointing at it, and trust me, a coach somewhere saw you point), the award is an additional base; thus, it's the plate.
2. You were correct in not killing the play (some umpires have been known to, mistaking it for Interference), as the incoming throw may have been cut off and redirected to make a play upon R1 or BR, which the defense has a right to attempt as they have conceded the play against the obstructed runner (R2).

EDIT: As I posted this, I suddenly realized a potential fallout from this play that has me thinking...

So, I present to @maven, @noumpere, @Matt, etc. – If the OBS does occur, and R2 is impeded and slowed from contact by F5 in reaching the plate, and the incoming throw comes in and is cut off, only to be redirected to tag R1 or BR (assume he has touched 1B successfully) before R2 touches HP, what do we (as umpires) judge regarding this? Do we score the run and allow the Out? Do we score the run, negate the out and place runners? Something else?

In all codes, we are allowed to make any ruling that nullifies the obstruction. In FED, as you stated, that will always involve at least a one-base award.

Thus, if I felt the run would have scored before the out, I'm still awarding home and the run. The out stands. Otherwise, the defense could just do a pick not necessarily to get the lead runner out, but just slow him up enough to keep the run from scoring.

[MidAmUmp]

You need to verbalize obstruction. That's the purpose of pointing. You announce your call as you point at the infraction. So point and say "That's obstruction!"

Hopefully in this situation your partner working the plate sees this and is also calling it (which was not your case...but we can dream of working with umpires who are on the same page). If not, by pointing and verbalizing the call, you hope that your partner at least sees you doing that and figures out that you have something.

To also answer the hypothetical timing play question, if you believe the runner would have scored before the 3rd out was made, had the obstruction not occurred, then score the run. 

[maven]

8 hours ago, MadMax said:

So, I present to @maven, @noumpere, @Matt, etc. – If the OBS does occur, and R2 is impeded and slowed from contact by F5 in reaching the plate, and the incoming throw comes in and is cut off, only to be redirected to tag R1 or BR (assume he has touched 1B successfully) before R2 touches HP, what do we (as umpires) judge regarding this? Do we score the run and allow the Out? Do we score the run, negate the out and place runners? Something else?

The obstructed runner gets a minimum award in FED, not other runners: other runners played on receive awarded bases only if affected by the obstruction. So their out would stand.

Your question is whether we would score the awarded run or rule this as a time play. I believe FED has a case play (which I can't find at the moment) that says score the run.

[maquinn78]

Sorry to bring up an old-ish topic....but you guys verbalize OBS as soon as it happens or after the play is over? It's a delayed dead ball, right?

[noumpere]

40 minutes ago, maquinn78 said:

Sorry to bring up an old-ish topic....but you guys verbalize OBS as soon as it happens or after the play is over? It's a delayed dead ball, right?

It's delayed dead but you still need to make the call when it happens.  The award isn't announced / enforced until the play is over.

[ElkOil]

On 4/18/2017 at 1:13 AM, MidAmUmp said:

You need to verbalize obstruction. That's the purpose of pointing. You announce your call as you point at the infraction. So point and say "That's obstruction!"

Hopefully in this situation your partner working the plate sees this and is also calling it (which was not your case...but we can dream of working with umpires who are on the same page). If not, by pointing and verbalizing the call, you hope that your partner at least sees you doing that and figures out that you have something.

To also answer the hypothetical timing play question, if you believe the runner would have scored before the 3rd out was made, had the obstruction not occurred, then score the run. 

I thought there wasn't an official FED mechanic for this. At least, that's what I was told. Has it changed, or was I given bad info?

[scrounge]

27 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

I thought there wasn't an official FED mechanic for this. At least, that's what I was told. Has it changed, or was I given bad info?

There isn't that left fist held out signal anymore, but still make the call as @MidAmUmp described.