coach berating his own players

[Guest Eastside Coach]

Had someone ask me this question and didn't know as I avoid the type of people being asked about.  12U Tournament NFHS rules in effect. Coach is berating his players constantly throughout the game. "Throw strikes and quit being a wuss!"  "Do I need to have an open tryout to find a third baseman who does' play like he's a retard"  "Catch the ball you idiot!"  Is there anything an umpire can do about this? 

[noumpere]

Not during the game, as the umpire.

 

The umpire can let the TD know about it after the fact, or if it's a "league" game and the umpire is also on the BOD, then the umpire can act in his BID capacity to address it.

[stkjock]

Is an EJ for unsportsmanlike conduct out of the question?   particularly if one of Carlin's seven banned words is used??? 

[noumpere]

17 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Is an EJ for unsportsmanlike conduct out of the question?   particularly if one of Carlin's seven banned words is used??? 

Not as described.  But, I *might* know an ump or two who would bait the coach into a valid ejection, just to get him out of there. 

 

I'm not saying that's a good idea -- if fact, I'll say that usually , it isn't.

[beerguy55]

I never want an umpire injecting himself into this situation.   Because then you're now at the mercy of what an umpire may or may not think is offensive, or inappropriate, or just not nice.  And it's not in his purview.

I had a game a number of years ago, in 12U...maybe even 10U, our assistant coach would say stuff like "All right kids, we need three runs this inning or you don't get lunch"...or if a kid got a hit he'd say "all right, you get to eat tonight".  It was very obviously in good fun, with kids and parents laughing.

One umpire chose to be offended by it, and told the coach to stop or he'd have to leave.

This is something for the TD, league board, team organization/association, or even the coach's player parents, to deal with.

[Mudisfun]

3 hours ago, Guest Eastside Coach said:

Had someone ask me this question and didn't know as I avoid the type of people being asked about.  12U Tournament NFHS rules in effect. Coach is berating his players constantly throughout the game. "Throw strikes and quit being a wuss!"  "Do I need to have an open tryout to find a third baseman who does' play like he's a retard"  "Catch the ball you idiot!"  Is there anything an umpire can do about this? 

I underlined and highlighted the appropriate parts of this question.

12 year old KIDS.

RETARD. IDIOT.

I hear an adult coach call a 12 year old child on a baseball field a retard or an idiot he is instantly ejected. No warning needed since this is something I would expect any adult to know is 100% unacceptable behavior. If the parents of this team are not willing to stand up for their children then I will in this one game. If a coach called my kid (who happens to be 12) an Idiot or Retard there would be a serious conversation with the BOD and league president that day as well as with the coach as I packed my son's gear and headed for the parking lot right then and there.

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I never want an umpire injecting himself into this situation.   Because then you're now at the mercy of what an umpire may or may not think is offensive, or inappropriate, or just not nice.  And it's not in his purview.

 

@beerguy55 I agree with you that there are instances where an Umpire should not jump into the team dynamics however I would hazard a guess if we polled 100 adults the majority of them would agree that calling 12 year old kids idiots and retards would fall into unacceptable behavior which is not really subject to interpretation of acceptable/unacceptable behavior. In this situation I am going with the coach needs to leave, now. I would not want to hear this from a Varsity HS coach much less for little kids.

[Replacematt]

40 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

I underlined and highlighted the appropriate parts of this question.

12 year old KIDS.

RETARD. IDIOT.

I hear an adult coach call a 12 year old child on a baseball field a retard or an idiot he is instantly ejected. No warning needed since this is something I would expect any adult to know is 100% unacceptable behavior. If the parents of this team are not willing to stand up for their children then I will in this one game. If a coach called my kid (who happens to be 12) an Idiot or Retard there would be a serious conversation with the BOD and league president that day as well as with the coach as I packed my son's gear and headed for the parking lot right then and there.

@beerguy55 I agree with you that there are instances where an Umpire should not jump into the team dynamics however I would hazard a guess if we polled 100 adults the majority of them would agree that calling 12 year old kids idiots and retards would fall into unacceptable behavior which is not really subject to interpretation of acceptable/unacceptable behavior. In this situation I am going with the coach needs to leave, now. I would not want to hear this from a Varsity HS coach much less for little kids.

Just because something is unacceptable behavior does not mean the umpire is the proper authority to deal with it.

[Mudisfun]

@Matt In my neck of the woods that behavior is unacceptable and against the bylaw rules as stated in most if not all of the organizations I officiate for. That being said it would be within the purview of the umpire to handle that business. 

Sadly many adults find berating children is acceptable in today's highly competitive sports since of course "they can take it" or they think it will make them tougher... whatever. My position is clearly stated, right or wrong.

[Replacematt]

39 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

@Matt In my neck of the woods that behavior is unacceptable and against the bylaw rules as stated in most if not all of the organizations I officiate for. That being said it would be within the purview of the umpire to handle that business. 

Sadly many adults find berating children is acceptable in today's highly competitive sports since of course "they can take it" or they think it will make them tougher... whatever. My position is clearly stated, right or wrong.

That may be how it works where you are. That is what it is. In most places, this would not be a place where an umpire has authority.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

 

@beerguy55 I agree with you that there are instances where an Umpire should not jump into the team dynamics however I would hazard a guess if we polled 100 adults the majority of them would agree that calling 12 year old kids idiots and retards would fall into unacceptable behavior which is not really subject to interpretation of acceptable/unacceptable behavior. In this situation I am going with the coach needs to leave, now. I would not want to hear this from a Varsity HS coach much less for little kids.

I get what you're saying - just be careful about applying your own sensibilities to societal norms of mores and values.  If you really want to know what's unacceptable, have a coach call one of his players a fagot - then you'll see the reaction not only by the umpire, but by the parents, the other team, and any adult in hearing distance.   Have him drop an F bomb, then you'll see a universal reaction.  "Idiot" and "retard" aren't there, yet.   And though retard will likely get there soon, I doubt idiot ever will.  Like you said, you risk stepping into team dynamics, and even inside jokes, with anything that's not universally recognized as a slur.

[CJK]

I'm pretty sure if I heard a coach call a youth player a "retard," I would find the next convenient time to express to the head coach one-on-one that I find the term offensive.  "Greg, there's a history in my family that makes the word 'retard' a big problem for me, and I'm just going to ask you and your guys to pick a different word for the rest of the day.  It's water under the bridge right now, forgive and forget, but if I hear it again I may take it personally.  Can you get that message across in your dugout?  Thanks, I appreciate it!"

I wouldn't feel uncomfortable making this request, sincerely and without any hint of confrontation; I also wouldn't have a problem explaining to a TD or UIC later that I had initiated this exchange with a coach.  And if personnel form that team can't comply with my request and I take it personally, Greg won't be surprised at the result.  He might not like it, but he had his chance to fix it.

[Mister B]

Here in Oregon, State law says, "A sports official may order a coach, team player or spectator to leave the premises at which a sports event is taking place and at which the sports official is officiating if the coach, team player or spectator is engaging in inappropriate behavior."

Failure to abide by that ruling is considered Criminal Trespass, a Class C misdemeanor. 

Although I don't think many parents would ever let it get to that point. 

[BrianC14]

I had a similar situation years and years ago in my first year of umpiring, while working a "peanuts" 'league of 8 and 9 year olds.  

Team A is just unable to do anything right, and clearly the game is no fun for anyone.   At one point the Coach of Team A asks for 'Time' and calls the whole team in to the pitcher's mound.  Given the circumstances, I give the coach some extra time on this visit:  sweep the plate, get a drink of water, walk slowly to the line, then finally head to the mound.  

Half way there I begin to hear that he's swearing at these little kids - swearing that would make a drunken sailor blush.  As he sees me approaching, he suddenly changes things to a positive tone, and turns quickly and actually starts JOGGING off the field.   I follow him as far as the 1B line and tell him "Coach, just keep going, you're done for today."   

He turns around and immediately begins to act - and I do mean "act" - incredulous, shocked, surprised, outraged, and starts going Earl Weaver on me, to the point where a few parents now want to know why I tossed him. I inform him that I heard specifically what he was saying to the team, and he immediately backs down.  As he starts heading for the gate, I inform him (so the parents can hear) that he should explain WHY he was ejected.    He of course, simply turns toward the parking lot and leaves without a word.

In looking back on this, I realize that I had no real authority to dump him, other than maybe relying on the sportsmanship code that the league had in place.  However, if I recall, most sportsmanship codes have the context about acting in a sporting manner to members of the opposing team only.   That, and given the very young age of the kids, I just felt that if I didn't do something right away, who would, and more importantly, who would ever know about the situation?  I was not a board member, nor did I know anyone associated with the league, I was just a newbie umpire who was working for an umpire association that had no affiliation with any leagues, other than being contracted for umpires.

[Richvee]

Here in NJ, for high school, we get to read this little paragraph before every game. 

 "There will be no tolerance for negative statements or actions between opposing players and coaches.  This includes Taunting, Baiting, Berating Opponents, Trash-Talking or actions which ridicule or cause embarrassment to them.  Any Verbal, Written or Physical Conduct related to Race, Gender, Ethnicity, Disability, Sexual Orientation or Religion shall NOT be tolerated, could subject the violater to Ejection, and may result in Penalties being assessed against your Team.  If such comments are heard a penalty will be assessed immediately.  We have been instructed not to issue warnings.  It is Your responsibility (Coaches and Captains) to remind your team of this Policy."

Now the statement does say between opposing players and coaches. But I think I might remind the coach of this policy, and I don't want to hear any more references related to disabilities, even if it is directed at your own team.   Travel ball or tournies, I don't think we have much say. Something for the team's parents or DT to address. 

 

[SJA]

As an Umpire, if I hear any abusive, berating, belittling, unsportsmanlike, verbal unbecoming conduct, or comments that would be considered socially unacceptable by a reasonable and prudent person,  from any player, coach, or manager towards any person(s) involved in the on-going game, they MAY get a warning, otherwise, they’re gone!

SJA

[RJBlue]

An umpire is a human of this planet. If the other coach and parents aren't willing to do something about this type of behaviour then certainly being a decent citizen you need to address it. CJK has a great suggestion on this but to just "leave it for someone else" is irresponsible. Competitive or not it is just a game. Kids don't need that kind of garbage in their lives.


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[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, RJBlue said:

An umpire is a human of this planet. If the other coach and parents aren't willing to do something about this type of behaviour then certainly being a decent citizen you need to address it. CJK has a great suggestion on this but to just "leave it for someone else" is irresponsible. Competitive or not it is just a game. Kids don't need that kind of garbage in their lives.


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Under what rules authority? 

If you have them, you can act. If not, you can't (at least on the field.)

[ElkOil]

Under FED, I'd invoke 3-3-1-f-2:

Use of profanity, intimidation tactics, remarks reflecting unfavorably upon any other person, or taunting or baiting. The NFHS disapproves of any form of taunting that is intended or designed to embarrass, ridicule or demean others under circumstances including race, religion, gender or national origin.

PENALTY: The umpire shall eject the offender from the game.

[maven]

8 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Under FED, I'd invoke 3-3-1-f-2:

And you'd be misapplying it. As a writer, you know what taunting and baiting are, and the examples provided in the rule, though not exhaustive, certainly point in another direction from what the OP describes.

The OP is abusive behavior, which is more serious than unsporting behavior. It calls for adult intervention, not sports official intervention. As a parent, I know I'd have my kid off that field faster than any umpire could stick his nose in the situation. Frankly I'm amazed at what parents will tolerate from their kids' coaches.

[Mussgrass]

11 hours ago, Matt said:

Under what rules authority? 

If you have them, you can act. If not, you can't (at least on the field.)

It goes beyond the rules at this point. It's basic human decency. Sometimes you just need to umpire and put the jerk coach in his place.

[RJBlue]

Under the rules authority of "you are a citizen of a decent society". Be careful not to let rules dictate what is right. If something is clearly wrong and a child is being affected negatively in this extreme case your conscience should be telling you something.


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[Aging_Arbiter]

In our local LL where I know most of the "daddy Coaches", I would take this opportunity to remind them that they are here as a role model for the children.  If they cease being that role model, their attendance is no longer required.

[scrounge]

I'm generally with those saying it's not our issue, at least not in-game. The one exception is if he's loudly yelling "retard". Now I'm stepping in if it's loud enough for the park to hear. He's not getting away with calling his players the n-word either, this one isn't flying. Keep it in the dugout/huddle and while I think it's despicable, that's a BOD/league/parent's issue.

[beerguy55]

44 minutes ago, RJBlue said:

Under the rules authority of "you are a citizen of a decent society". Be careful not to let rules dictate what is right. If something is clearly wrong and a child is being affected negatively in this extreme case your conscience should be telling you something.


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Nobody is saying you can't say anything.   Telling the coach he's being an ass, or inappropriate, or wrong, or childish...whatever...is far different than invoking your power as a game official, and imposing the rules on the game into your sense of decency.  

If you are acting as a "citizen of a decent society" then you have no more authority to eject the coach from the game than any parent in the stands does.

How about saying to the parents "you let your coach call your kid an idiot?"

[Umpire in Chief]

If your league, state HS league, conference, etc. give you the specific authority to take action then I'd say do so. I wouldn't unnecessarily broaden whichever rule may possibly allow the ej. 

Otherwise I'd go with...

On 4/10/2017 at 10:20 AM, beerguy55 said:

I never want an umpire injecting himself into this situation.   Because then you're now at the mercy of what an umpire may or may not think is offensive, or inappropriate, or just not nice.  And it's not in his purview.

I had a game a number of years ago, in 12U...maybe even 10U, our assistant coach would say stuff like "All right kids, we need three runs this inning or you don't get lunch"...or if a kid got a hit he'd say "all right, you get to eat tonight".  It was very obviously in good fun, with kids and parents laughing.

One umpire chose to be offended by it, and told the coach to stop or he'd have to leave.

This is something for the TD, league board, team organization/association, or even the coach's player parents, to deal with.

And if it was getting egregious I too MIGHT

On 4/10/2017 at 9:40 AM, noumpere said:

I *might* know an ump or two who would bait the coach into a valid ejection, just to get him out of there.

 

[CJK]

3 hours ago, maven said:

The OP is abusive behavior, which is more serious than unsporting behavior. It calls for adult intervention, not sports official intervention.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but I believe it calls for both.  And I am both an adult and a sports official, at the same time, which is why I wouldn't have any problem standing behind the decision to give the coach the chance to modify the inappropriate behavior, nor a problem standing behind the decision to eject anybody who chooses to offend me personally.

I suspect you wouldn't think twice about acting to protect the players if you felt they were physically threatened, whether it was by weather or spectators or their own coaches.  I don't see how this situation is different.