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zoops

HBP - hands/knob

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zoops    48

Had a fastball run up and in on a RH batter and hit right where the left hand and the bat meet.  I called it a foul ball, as it sounded like it hit the knob.  Batter staggers away as soon as the contact occurs towards his 3rd base coach.  They say it hit his hand and I ask him to show me his hand.  Definitely a mark on his left hand right where it would meet the knob of the bat.  I kept it a foul.  

I remember the NCAA had a video on this a couple years ago.  Would the preferred approach to this be to call time, read the batter's reaction, possibly look at his hand, and then make (sell) your call?  

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MidAmUmp    1,726

You can call it what you think at the time, then look at evidence and change your decision if necessary. 

I would just say that if he has a mark on his hand, give him first base. 

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maven    3,880
2 minutes ago, MidAmUmp said:

You can call it what you think at the time, then look at evidence and change your decision if necessary. 

I would just say that if he has a mark on his hand, give him first base. 

I agree. Get it right.

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noumpere    2,412
32 minutes ago, zoops said:

Had a fastball run up and in on a RH batter and hit right where the left hand and the bat meet. 

It hit the hand first.

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maven    3,880
3 hours ago, noumpere said:

It hit the hand first.

I believe that noumpere is stating a philosophy for making this kind of call: when in doubt, it hit the batter.

The rationale for this philosophy is: if F1 doesn't want us to make that call, he should keep the pitches out of the batter's box.

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Kevin_K    523

I have had a couple of situations like this where I was not quite sure what happened and I called "Time!" and allowed myself a second or two to figure out what I saw before making any kind of indication to anyone.

The most recent version was a swing and a HBP that I thought may have gotten the knob of the bat, but the batter gave it away when he grabbed his hand and said it had hit him.

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I agree, benefit of doubt goes to batter here.  Happens all the time that ball hits BOTH hands and bat knob.  The physics of that double-hit would almost certainly dictate that it hit the hand first....but then again, we all know the hands are part of the bat.:rolleyes:

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kstrunk    204
21 hours ago, zoops said:

I remember the NCAA had a video on this a couple years ago.

The video came out over the winter clinics, was of a CWS play that was handled in absolutely exemplary fashion. He didn't make a call other than 'time'! Then he inspected the batter's hand, then he asked U1, 'I want to know if he swung.', then he awarded 1B. His timing, control, and verbiage were simply inspiring. 

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ALStripes17    556
The video came out over the winter clinics, was of a CWS play that was handled in absolutely exemplary fashion. He didn't make a call other than 'time'! Then he inspected the batter's hand, then he asked U1, 'I want to know if he swung.', then he awarded 1B. His timing, control, and verbiage were simply inspiring. 

A clip of premiere officiating. I love referring people to that scenario for training and informational purposes.

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personally.... always just call "TIME"  .... time means nothing right now... then look at your evidence.. tell him to take off his glove and look to see if there is anything that looks like a mark, or red.. if so.. give him 1st ..

 

Trust me i just did this in a Big Non con game.... not a word from anyone.

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18 hours ago, johnpatrick said:

Who screwed up?  F1 did by throwing it up and in.  Benefit of the doubt to the batter.

and what if it actually hit the bottom of the bat? you still gonna give him 1st base cause the pitcher screwed up?

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catsbackr    371

I had this exact situation happen Saturday in an NAIA game.  Pitch up and in, I hear contact, I call time, batter has zero reaction indicating it hit his had, I call foul ball.  Coach comes down from 3B coaches box, asks what I've got.  I told him it hit the knob, he says he thinks it hit his hand, I tell him "so you're telling me your guy took an 85 MPH fast ball to the hand and had no reaction or pain?  I've got it off the knob.  We're done here coach, go back to your coaches box."  He complies.

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beerguy55    180
2 hours ago, Haid D' Salaami said:

and what if it actually hit the bottom of the bat? you still gonna give him 1st base cause the pitcher screwed up?

The keys words above are "benefit of the doubt".  The context is on a pitch that hits the end of the bat may have hit the knob, may have hit the hand, and may have hit both the knob and the hand at virtually the same time.  If you're certain it hit the knob first/only, call foul.  If it's TCTC then give the batter his base.

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ricka56    1,062
On 4/9/2017 at 9:58 AM, MidAmUmp said:

You can call it what you think at the time, then look at evidence and change your decision if necessary. 

I would just say that if he has a mark on his hand, give him first base. 

Had this a few years ago, the hand wasn't cut, but the the wound seeped blood out (like you might expect if the heel of your hand got between a bat knob and a fastball...looked ugly. Gave the batter 1B. DHC was incredulous...<shrug>

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Minnz    47

Key off the batter when in doubt. If the batter sells it and reacts to being hit give him the base. Easy to sell it on a borderline one when the batter reacts to being hit then if he just stands there.  Sometimes you let the players do the talking so to speak.

You get in trouble looking for a mark on a hand. Not every player has same skin and reacts the same to slight contact.

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udbrky    240

I had 2 last month in same Varsity game - windy AF and it made it harder to hear the distinction. One, he swung at on less than 2 strikes, so I told the coach it didn't make a difference - it was either a foul ball or a dead ball strike either way.

 

Neither of them did the player react like he'd been hit, and it sounded like knob. It wasn't until later that they acted like it hit hand instead.

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Catch18    2
I had this exact situation happen Saturday in an NAIA game.  Pitch up and in, I hear contact, I call time, batter has zero reaction indicating it hit his had, I call foul ball.  Coach comes down from 3B coaches box, asks what I've got.  I told him it hit the knob, he says he thinks it hit his hand, I tell him "so you're telling me your guy took an 85 MPH fast ball to the hand and had no reaction or pain?  I've got it off the knob.  We're done here coach, go back to your coaches box."  He complies.


I'll prob lean more toward calling time as well, take 2 more seconds to eval *reactions*, then make the call. I don't know if I'm a fan of a "take your glove off and let's check if it's red" kinda deal----are we going with shoe polish on ball for HBP....checking the field/dirt for cleat marks on missed bags...etc.

And if he does this, good job kid:



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