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ricka56

infielder warm-up

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New F1 comes in and starts his warm-ups. While PU is dealing with the line-up changes. DT throws a ball to the infielders and F6 (the future F1 to relieve the F1 currently warming up) throws around in a pre-warm-up warm-up. I don't think this is allowed, but I don't know what rule or interp that would address it. Can anyone confirm this and cite rule/interp support. 

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New F1 comes in and starts his warm-ups. While PU is dealing with the line-up changes. DT throws a ball to the infielders and F6 (the future F1 to relieve the F1 currently warming up) throws around in a pre-warm-up warm-up. I don't think this is allowed, but I don't know what rule or interp that would address it. Can anyone confirm this and cite rule/interp support. 

No problem letting the infielders throw a ball while the pitcher warms up...especially of it's cold. They just can not delay the game and must be done and have the ball in at the end of the 1 minute warm-up.

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5 hours ago, Mike D said:


No problem letting the infielders throw a ball while the pitcher warms up...especially of it's cold. They just can not delay the game and must be done and have the ball in at the end of the 1 minute warm-up.

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The interp exists:

"2014

SITUATION 11: As the head coach moves to the pitching mound for a defensive conference, he tosses a baseball to his third baseman and has him take warm-up throws with another player to get ready to pitch. RULING: A team cannot have a fielder, in the game, throw a baseball for the purpose of warming up as a pitcher, during a defensive conference or a pitching change. If a team desires to warm up a player in the game to prepare him to pitch, it would need to take him out of the game to warm up and then later re-enter him under the substitution rule. (3-4-1)"

Whether you want to know it exists is up to you.

 

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The interp exists:
"2014
SITUATION 11: As the head coach moves to the pitching mound for a defensive conference, he tosses a baseball to his third baseman and has him take warm-up throws with another player to get ready to pitch. RULING: A team cannot have a fielder, in the game, throw a baseball for the purpose of warming up as a pitcher, during a defensive conference or a pitching change. If a team desires to warm up a player in the game to prepare him to pitch, it would need to take him out of the game to warm up and then later re-enter him under the substitution rule. (3-4-1)"
Whether you want to know it exists is up to you.
 

This is not what the OP was talking about...he was referring to non-pitching players playing catch while the pitcher was warming up with the catcher

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3 minutes ago, Mike D said:


This is not what the OP was talking about...he was referring to non-pitching players playing catch while the pitcher was warming up with the catcher

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That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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8 hours ago, Mike D said:


This is not what the OP was talking about...he was referring to non-pitching players playing catch while the pitcher was warming up with the catcher

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It's (almost) exactly what the OP was about.  The only differences is that in one case the player was F5 and in the other he was F6.

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It's (almost) exactly what the OP was about.  The only differences is that in one case the player was F5 and in the other he was F6.

Here is the difference:

Sit. 11 - the F6 was warming up as pitcher while the coach was delaying the game with a conference with the current pitcher (who he was going to take out) effectively delaying the game to give him more than the 8 warm-up pitches on the field. If he wants to warm up a pitcher before the 8 on-field pitches he has to make a substitution and put him in the bull pen.

Sit. OP - The fielders are just throwing around a ball just like when the pitcher is warming up at the start of a half inning. None of them are projected or intended to be used as F1.

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6 minutes ago, Mike D said:


Here is the difference:

Sit. 11 - the F6 was warming up as pitcher while the coach was delaying the game with a conference with the current pitcher (who he was going to take out) effectively delaying the game to give him more than the 8 warm-up pitches on the field. If he wants to warm up a pitcher before the 8 on-field pitches he has to make a substitution and put him in the bull pen.

Sit. OP - The fielders are just throwing around a ball just like when the pitcher is warming up at the start of a half inning. None of them are projected or intended to be used as F1.

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Sitch 11 does not imply that any delay was made. Coach could be done with his conference in a timely manner and take the practice ball off of the field with him as he goes back to  the dugout. In either case, the defensive team has not yet committed to bringing that player in to pitch. so the umpire can't know for sure the purpose of the infielder warm up.

So I think Sit 11 does applies to the OP. Does Sitch 11 apply to a new infielder freshly brought into the game ? I think it does. 

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Sitch 11 does not imply that any delay was made. Coach could be done with his conference in a timely manner and take the practice ball off of the field with him as he goes back to  the dugout. In either case, the defensive team has not yet committed to bringing that player in to pitch. so the umpire can't know for sure the purpose of the infielder warm up.
So I think Sit 11 does applies to the OP. Does Sitch 11 apply to a new infielder freshly brought into the game ? I think it does. 

Yes, but, if the substitute F1 is taking his warm-ups after the change is announced he is required to pitch to one full position in the batting order or retire the side. The coach can not have one pitcher warm up on the mound while another pitcher warms up on the field and immediately replace the first substitute F1. In the OPs situation the coach has already committed to the pitching change.

I think we may be trying to create situations where we might apply an obscure ruling from a three year old casebook to a different situation. I have been looking through the rule book to see where it allows or forbids other players from playing catch during a pitcher's warm-up (even during the start of the half inning) if anyone else can find a rule about this please post it.

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33 minutes ago, Mike D said:


Yes, but, if the substitute F1 is taking his warm-ups after the change is announced he is required to pitch to one full position in the batting order or retire the side. The coach can not have one pitcher warm up on the mound while another pitcher warms up on the field and immediately replace the first substitute F1. In the OPs situation the coach has already committed to the pitching change.

I think we may be trying to create situations where we might apply an obscure ruling from a three year old casebook to a different situation. I have been looking through the rule book to see where it allows or forbids other players from playing catch during a pitcher's warm-up (even during the start of the half inning) if anyone else can find a rule about this please post it.

In my case, F1 pitched to 2 or 3 batters, could get them out of the inning and then F6 (the one throwing previously) came into pitch. He ended up throwing a wild pitch to score what would be the winning run.

We're not going to find this in the rule book. Rule book changes take lots of effort ... official interps, not so much. But these official interps have the same weight as a rule book reference, IMO.

@Jimurray , thanks

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The only ruling I could find:  NFHS CB 3.3.1 SITUATION KK: During a charged conference, the coach or other bench personnel (a) hits or (b) throws fly balls to a substitute outfielder, F8.  RULING: Illegal in (a) and (b).

This CB sit. is very different from the OP in the who-what-and-where but the principle may be the same. 

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I think the key is that both the interpretation and case cited above include very important specific modifiers that limit their scope. The first very clearly says doing it "for the purpose of warming up as a pitcher" is prohibited....what sense would there be in making it that specific if merely tossing a ball for another purpose is generally prohibited? If not "for the purpose of warming up as a pitcher", then fine by me. Additionally, in the case, they talk about coach or bench personnel, specifically excluding players in the game. Taking these in context, players in the game can throw it around, as long as they don't delay the game (covered under other rules) or do it for the purpose of warming up as a pitcher, at least to me. 

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Well, I didn't know that they were warming up a to-be-entered-later F1, but the opposing team seemed to know. If the scope of this interp is limited to future F1, I don't know how we can foresee this. The defense certainly wasn't obligated to bringing F6 in. 

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2 hours ago, Mike D said:


Yes, but, if the substitute F1 is taking his warm-ups after the change is announced he is required to pitch to one full position in the batting order or retire the side. The coach can not have one pitcher warm up on the mound while another pitcher warms up on the field and immediately replace the first substitute F1. In the OPs situation the coach has already committed to the pitching change.

I think we may be trying to create situations where we might apply an obscure ruling from a three year old casebook to a different situation. I have been looking through the rule book to see where it allows or forbids other players from playing catch during a pitcher's warm-up (even during the start of the half inning) if anyone else can find a rule about this please post it.

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I can find a rule about it, but in NCAA. Defensive players may warm up during a free trip as long as they stay in fair territory and do not delay the game.

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13 minutes ago, ricka56 said:

If the scope of this interp is limited to future F1, I don't know how we can foresee this.  

Perhaps more supernatural powers the NFHS bestows upon us all.  

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Let it go!

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47 minutes ago, JaxRolo said:

Let it go!

Please, don't sing!!! :o

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Do we stop all in-field warms ups just in case one of them might eventually become F1? 

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The only way we officials can change a rule is to enforce it.

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1 hour ago, Mussgrass said:

Please, don't sing!!! :o

You're not my mom. You're not the boss of me.

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15 hours ago, kylehutson said:

You're not my mom. You're not the boss of me.

Sorry! Just a little Disney reference for those of you with young daughters.

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1 hour ago, Mussgrass said:

Sorry! Just a little Disney reference for those of you with young daughters.

Oh, I caught the reference. If you'd have said it to me in person, I would have followed-up my comment with a fully belted-out rendition of the song.

My 21-year-old son will answer this way when I tell him something innocuous, like "have a good day" or "drive safe", and I think it's hilarious. Just thought I'd share.

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18 hours ago, Mister B said:

Do we stop all in-field warms ups just in case one of them might eventually become F1? 

I think that is the question that needs to be asked of our association leadership. We can not know when the infielder wanting to throw will become the next F1. Choices seem to be: 

1. prohibit all infielder warm-up during this time;
2. allow any infielder to warm-up during this time;
3. prohibit infielder warm-up when we have a clairvoyant experience and know that this infielder is going to become F1 (refer to #1).

Without guidance from our asso, we are subject to criticism of over/under officiating. 

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15 hours ago, ricka56 said:

I think that is the question that needs to be asked of our association leadership. We can not know when the infielder wanting to throw will become the next F1. Choices seem to be: 

1. prohibit all infielder warm-up during this time;
2. allow any infielder to warm-up during this time;
3. prohibit infielder warm-up when we have a clairvoyant experience and know that this infielder is going to become F1 (refer to #1).

Without guidance from our asso, we are subject to criticism of over/under officiating. 

#2. Watch infielders toss while F1 throws his 8, put the ball back in play and roll. 

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