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Did I kick this one??


Thawk
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So I had a 11u travel ball game last night.  I had one play occur that looking through the rulebook I think I might have kicked, but at the time neither side argued with my call.  So I thought I would put it up and get thoughts.

Situation, Runners on 1B & 2B, no outs.  B/R lays down a bunt which goes right in front of the plate.  As the B/R begins to run for 1B, he lets go off the bat in fair territory.  It lands on top of the ball.  I killed the play immediately, called the B/R out for interference, and sent the runners back to 1B and 2B.

Here's my dilemma- OBR describes this situation in when the batter/runner is clearly trying to break up a double play.  There was clearly not going to be a double play-runners were moving on the pitch.  So I am just curious if I am reading that rule incorrectly (6.01-can't remember the subsection)  To clarify, the ball didn't roll into the bat, the bat landed on the ball.

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Sounds like you have it right to me.

 

6.05 A batter is out when—

. . .

(h) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory.
The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter-runner drops his bat and
the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire’s judgment, there
was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play.
If the batter is in a legal position in the batter’s box, see Rule 6.03, and, in the
umpire’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, a
batted ball that strikes the batter or his bat shall be ruled a foul ball;
Rule 6.05(h) Comment: If a bat breaks and part of it is in fair territory and is hit by a batted
ball or part of it hits a runner or fielder, play shall continue and no interference called. If batted ball
hits part of a broken bat in foul territory, it is a foul ball.


If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player
attempting to make a play, interference shall be called, whether intentional or not.
In cases where the batting helmet is accidentally hit with a batted ball on or over fair territory
or a thrown ball, the ball remains in play the same as if it has not hit the helmet.
If a batted ball strikes a batting helmet or any other object foreign to the natural ground while
on foul territory, it is a foul ball and the ball is dead.
If, in the umpire’s judgment, there is intent on the part of a baserunner to interfere with a batted
or thrown ball by dropping the helmet or throwing it at the ball, then the runner would be out, the
ball dead and runners would return to last base legally touched.

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1 minute ago, scrounge said:

Was there a fielder in possible position to field it? If not it seems to fall under the inadvertent contact provision above, since the bat is now dropped not held.

@scrounge F2 was making a play for the ball.  This all happened maybe 3-4 feet in front of the plate

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Rule 5.09(a)(8) comment (2nd paragraph) - If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called whether intentional or not. 

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A similar situation was brought up at our Association meeting last night.  One experienced umpire had a good suggestion.  If the ball hits the bat, you have nothing, if the bat hits the ball, you have an out.

Seemed to make sense to me (in an "intention-free" situation).

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3 hours ago, kstrunk said:

Rule 5.09(a)(8) comment (2nd paragraph) - If a whole bat is thrown into fair or foul territory and interferes with a defensive player attempting to make a play, interference shall be called whether intentional or not. 

The bat didn't hit the fielder, it hit the ball. This provision does not apply to this case.

The distinction is similar to runner interference with a (protected) fielder vs runner being hit by a batted ball. The rules are different.

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1 hour ago, maven said:

The rules are different.

I'm honored to have stimulated your 6000th post!!!! But please, teach on... Should I have cited 5.09 (a)(8) alone, WITHOUT the comment? 

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56 minutes ago, kstrunk said:

I'm honored to have stimulated your 6000th post!!!! But please, teach on... Should I have cited 5.09 (a)(8) alone, WITHOUT the comment? 

Isn't that what basejester posted? He has the old number in there.... but yes, that's the OBR rule.

And the 6000th post: I was going to be a wiseass and say that 1 post got deleted a couple years ago, so that was really #6001, but then I realized that the number is still way too high, and kinda embarrassing. Maybe Warren can reset it to 42 or something. :)

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I had a similar play happen yesterday, but I judged the bat to have been dropped and then the ball rolled into the bat. I agree with @conbo61 about the bat hitting the ball vs. the ball hitting the bat. That's how I keep it straight in my head. 

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16 hours ago, Thawk751 said:

B/R lays down a bunt which goes right in front of the plate.

 

16 hours ago, scrounge said:

Was there a fielder in possible position to field it?

Was this question even necessary?

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10 hours ago, maven said:

1 post got deleted a couple years ago, so that was really #6001, but then I realized that the number is still way too high, and kinda embarrassing. Maybe Warren can reset it to 42 or something. :)

Maven ... NEVER stop posting.  EVER.

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From the 2013 Wendelstedt Rules and Interpretations Manual (p. 175): 

It is interference when:  The whole bat, either in or out of possession of the batter-runner, hits a fair ball a second time in fair territory, or is thrown and interferes with a fielder attempting to field or throw a ball [5.09(a)(8)].

Enforcement:  When the bat interferes with the ball or a fielder, the umpire will call and signal interference and then call time. He will call out the batter-runner, and return all other runners to their original bases.

And this case play that appears on page 243 of the same edition:

P380:  No one on, 1 out, 1-2 count. The batter hits the next pitch to the left side of the infield, his bats slips out of his hand. As the third baseman charges in to field the ball, the bat (a) hits the ball over fair territory, knocking it into foul territory; (b) almost hits the third baseman and causes him to miss the ball. Ruling:  In (a), the umpire should signal interference and call time when the bat hits the ball. The BR is out. In (b), the umpire should signal interference and call time when the bat hinders the third baseman. The BR is out.

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  • 1 month later...

In every way I have understood the rule... *I* think you got it dead right. Ball in fair territory...bat dropped which hits ball...its a dead ball OBR. Bat dropped in fair territory and ball rolls into the bat...live ball.

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