Illegal Feint?

[Guest WonderingFan]

Has high school made the feint throw to 3rd then turn around and throw to 1st move illegal the same as MLB? And what about a right handed pitcher basically jump spinning and throwing to 1st? 

Thanks 

[ALStripes17]

Has high school made the feint throw to 3rd then turn around and throw to 1st move illegal the same as MLB? And what about a right handed pitcher basically jump spinning and throwing to 1st? 
Thanks 

No... NCAA and HS rules both still allow a fake to 3B (which encompasses the '31' move that everyone knows and loves).


And the pitcher is allowed to do a jump-spin, jab-step, step and throw to 1B for a pickoff move. As always, it is illegal for him to feint these moves to 1B as he (the pitcher) has not disengaged the rubber with a bona fide step back with the pivot foot.

[maven]

56 minutes ago, S0M0TEITBE said:

I will be the first to admit IMO balks are the hardest part about umpiring.

I hope you're the only person to admit your own opinion.

Game management is far more difficult, mainly because it's a skill that is not about rules or mechanics and thus is not easily teachable.

[Gfoley4]

The "fake to third, fake to first" move is legal in FED (high school) and NCAA, but not in OBR (MLB). In all codes, a pitcher must throw to first when doing a jump spin as that is considered to be on the rubber. Stepping off the back of the rubber requires no throw.

[S0M0TEITBE]

I have to wonder if this "fan" was at the game I called tonight. I ended up having to run a coach "who was absolutely certain" that was a balk and "if we didn't call it and it happened again he was coming off his bucket." 

[maven]

11 hours ago, Guest WonderingFan said:

Has high school made the feint throw to 3rd then turn around and throw to 1st move illegal the same as MLB? And what about a right handed pitcher basically jump spinning and throwing to 1st? 

The first question has already been answered.

Many different variations of the pickoff exist for RHP. Rather than catalog all the legal and illegal moves, it better promotes understanding to list the criteria for a legal move.

When F1 is engaged with the rubber in the set position with R1 only, he may legally do 3 things: pitch to the batter, disengage, or step and throw to 1B.

Disengaging means moving only the pivot foot in a step directly back off the rubber and setting it down prior to separating his hands. As long as the pivot moves by itself — the front foot remains planted — we're not too technical about the timing of the move.

Stepping and throwing to 1B requires that the front foot gain distance and direction from wherever it was toward 1B. If F1 merely spins on the foot and throws to 1B, that move does not satisfy the requirements of the rule, so it's a no-step balk.

But, as I say, tons of variations of the jump spin/turn move to allow F1 to line up his shoulders and fire to 1B. As long as that free foot gains distance and direction toward 1B, the throw will be legal. Making any of these moves, even ones that move the pivot foot back off the rubber, commits F1 to throw to 1B, as they do not satisfy the requirements of a legal disengagement.

[Rich Ives]

39 minutes ago, maven said:

The first question has already been answered.

Many different variations of the pickoff exist for RHP. Rather than catalog all the legal and illegal moves, it better promotes understanding to list the criteria for a legal move.

When F1 is engaged with the rubber in the set position with R1 only, he may legally do 3 things: pitch to the batter, disengage, or step and throw to 1B.

Disengaging means moving only the pivot foot in a step directly back off the rubber and setting it down prior to separating his hands. As long as the pivot moves by itself — the front foot remains planted — we're not too technical about the timing of the move.

Stepping and throwing to 1B requires that the front foot gain distance and direction from wherever it was toward 1B. If F1 merely spins on the foot and throws to 1B, that move does not satisfy the requirements of the rule, so it's a no-step balk.

But, as I say, tons of variations of the jump spin/turn move to allow F1 to line up his shoulders and fire to 1B. As long as that free foot gains distance and direction toward 1B, the throw will be legal. Making any of these moves, even ones that move the pivot foot back off the rubber, commits F1 to throw to 1B, as they do not satisfy the requirements of a legal disengagement.

It should be noted that if the pivot foot comes off the rubber as a follow up to a throw or feint the pitcher is thus no longer engaged.

[Catch18]

I have to wonder if this "fan" was at the game I called tonight. I ended up having to run a coach "who was absolutely certain" that was a balk and "if we didn't call it and it happened again he was coming off his bucket." 

Lol...looks like you took him up on his offer to get off the bucket....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[S0M0TEITBE]

IMO balks are the hardest part about umpiring. You don't see them very often. And I know it's one thing I need to improve on if I want to move on up the ladder. 

If anyone knows of a good resource whether it be video, YouTube channel, camp that focuses on balks or anything else you used to help you "master" balks I am open to any ideas. It's something I really want to improve on but it's hard seeing a move and not knowing 100% whether it's a balk or not. 

[scrounge]

2 minutes ago, S0M0TEITBE said:

I will be the first to admit IMO balks are the hardest part about umpiring. You don't see them very often. And I know it's one thing I need to improve on if I want to move on up the ladder. 

If anyone knows of a good resource whether it be video, YouTube channel, camp that focuses on balks or anything else you used to help you "master" balks I am open to any ideas. It's something I really want to improve on but it's hard seeing a move and not knowing 100% whether it's a balk or not. 

It's a little old, but i remember this video was helpful...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYu6yoji9_U

[noumpere]

Balks call themselves.

 

That said, the Jim Evans Balk Video is the best tool I've seen.

[kstrunk]

23 hours ago, maven said:

even ones that move the pivot foot back off the rubber, commits F1 to throw to 1B,

Had a guy last summer who made a move to first by jumping off the back of the rubber (not a direct and clear disengagement as everything moved simultaneously) and he did NOT throw to first... I balked him. HC was adamant that F1 'stepped off' so he doesn't need to throw. I know other guys have seen this as well, and it may become more prevalent, but it's a balk and it should be called. Thanks @maven for emphasizing it. 

[maven]

1 hour ago, kstrunk said:

Had a guy last summer who made a move to first by jumping off the back of the rubber (not a direct and clear disengagement as everything moved simultaneously) and he did NOT throw to first... I balked him. HC was adamant that F1 'stepped off' so he doesn't need to throw.

BTDT!

[kstrunk]

18 minutes ago, maven said:

BTDT!

I'm afraid to ask! 

[noumpere]

12 minutes ago, kstrunk said:

I'm afraid to ask! 

I've been there and done that, too.

[kylehutson]

1 hour ago, kstrunk said:

I'm afraid to ask! 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=btdt

[Stk004]

On 3/21/2017 at 2:49 PM, S0M0TEITBE said:

IMO balks are the hardest part about umpiring. You don't see them very often. And I know it's one thing I need to improve on if I want to move on up the ladder. 

If anyone knows of a good resource whether it be video, YouTube channel, camp that focuses on balks or anything else you used to help you "master" balks I am open to any ideas. It's something I really want to improve on but it's hard seeing a move and not knowing 100% whether it's a balk or not. 

Boy, I'd love to work your level of ball where you don't see balks very often. 

[alex7]

1 hour ago, Stk004 said:

Boy, I'd love to work your level of ball where you don't see balks very often. 

coach pitch. I'm more impressed he's found a way to call SOME!

[maven]

7 hours ago, alex7 said:

coach pitch. I'm more impressed he's found a way to call SOME!

I was helping in the field and called a start/stop balk on my 5-year-old's coach last season. I thought he was going to pass out he was laughing so hard.

A couple daddy-coaches coming up in that league that know the rules better than most.