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Guest James T Rogers

High School game, visiting team scored 4 runs in the bottom of the 1st but the scorekeeper only showed 3, no one said anything. She had 2 on scoreboard and then changed it to 3. ( 3-0, 2 outs, runners on 2nd & 3rd, pass ball, runner from 3rd scores, the runner from 2nd delays then tries to reach 3rd & is tagged out for 3rd out). Later in the top of the 5th with the score 9-0, the visiting team coach called time & had his scorekeeper  & home scorekeeper get together to change score to 10-0. The home scorekeeper would not change her book/score. The coach then approached the umpire for help but was informed that he let it go past the bottom of the 1st so it was up to the home book to change or keep the current score. So 9-0 at the end of 5. Final score 24-2 in 7 innings. Was the umpire correct that he couldn't change the score ?

 

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NFHS rule 10-2-3:  Umpire-in-chief duties include the following:

m. Correct a scorekeeping error if brought to an umpire’s attention before the umpires leave the field when the game is over.

2015 NFHS Case Book Play 10.2.3K:  What happens if a scoring error concerning the number of runs a team scores or outs a team has is detected (a) before the game has ended, or (b) after the game?  RULING:  In (a), the scoring error is corrected immediately. In (b), if by changing the scoring error the outcome will be affected, the corrected score shall be brought to an umpire’s attention before the umpires leave the playing field. Otherwise, the score that both teams thought was correct stands. COMMENT:  The scorebook of the home team shall be the official scorebook, unless the umpire-in-chief rules otherwise. Individuals who keep their team’s scorebook should pay particular attention to the score that is posted on the scoreboard, or that is announced over the PA system. If there is any confusion about the number of runs scored, the official scorekeeper should be consulted immediately. Umpires are not required to sign the scorebook to make it official.

 

Official Interpretation: Hopkins:  The scorer should inform umpires of a scoring error at the time of the mistake. (Website 2011 #1)

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We umpire the game...we don't keep the score...though if put to a vote, I'd vote end the game 10-0. But this is not up for a vote. This is between the teams and the score keeper. 

Not My Circus, Not My Monkeys
 

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Yes, the umpire was correct. The teams would have to discuss the issue with their governing body and adhere to whatever administrative processes they follow for such a thing.

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If the umpire *knew* the score was wrong, it could be corrected at any time.  There's not time frame (like "beyond the bottom of the first") in which this must happen.

 

If not, then it's up to the scorers to agree. otherwise the official book (usually the home book) rules.

 

But, I'm curious as to how the game went 10 innings -- did the V team not get ahead by 10 in the 6th?  they scored 15 runs in the top of the 7th inning?

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In the OP or any similar time play situation, shouldn't the plate umpire declare after the 3rd out was made that the run does (or doesn't) count? This would eliminate the issue as long as the scorer was paying attention.

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1 hour ago, Mussgrass said:

In the OP or any similar time play situation, shouldn't the plate umpire declare after the 3rd out was made that the run does (or doesn't) count? This would eliminate the issue as long as the scorer was paying attention.

Yes, if it's close.  The definition of "close" might depend on the league --

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2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

It was 24-2 in 7 innings.  The problem was discovered in the 5th.

I know.  I just find it a little hard to think that the V didn't also get ahead by 10 runs in the sixth and then scored 13-15 runs in the 7th.  I recognize that it's possible and that stranger things have probably happened.

 

Karma for PU who didn't make it clear that the run in the first? (or whatever inning) should have counted so the game owuld be over in the fifth.

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17 hours ago, Guest James T Rogers said:

High School game, visiting team scored 4 runs in the bottom of the 1st

Upon further reflection -- this seems -- well, at least unlikely.  ;)

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31 minutes ago, noumpere said:

I know.  I just find it a little hard to think that the V didn't also get ahead by 10 runs in the sixth and then scored 13-15 runs in the 7th.  I recognize that it's possible and that stranger things have probably happened.

 

Karma for PU who didn't make it clear that the run in the first? (or whatever inning) should have counted so the game owuld be over in the fifth.

Once lost a game when leading by 10 with two out in the last inning.

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23 hours ago, noumpere said:

Karma for PU who didn't make it clear that the run in the first? (or whatever inning) should have counted so the game owuld be over in the fifth.

@noumpere Wish this thought worked everywhere... Game on Friday... HS Varsity which I think was football? Final 33-1... with the home team scoring their one run with 1 out in the bottom of the 7th.

I would have serious issues in a game like this if the visitors wanted to challenge the final score...

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On 3/18/2017 at 0:07 AM, ricka56 said:

We umpire the game...we don't keep the score...though if put to a vote, I'd vote end the game 10-0. But this is not up for a vote. This is between the teams and the score keeper. 

Not My Circus, Not My Monkeys
 

NY doesn't use the mercy rule. Don't know about other states.

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3 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

@noumpere Wish this thought worked everywhere... Game on Friday... HS Varsity which I think was football? Final 33-1... with the home team scoring their one run with 1 out in the bottom of the 7th.

I would have serious issues in a game like this if the visitors wanted to challenge the final score...

They could have conceded the game, with the other coach agreeing, per FED rules. I guess they did not want a shutout on their record. 

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14 hours ago, Jimurray said:

They could have conceded the game, with the other coach agreeing, per FED rules. I guess they did not want a shutout on their record. 

I've been on both ends of blowouts.  As a coach, I take this as an opportunity to try things out, where mistakes aren't nearly so critical or magnified.  These kids get limited game time through the course of a season, and however much practice time we all get, there's no experience like game experience.   Give the kids some opportunities to take some risks.  One example is some kids I've coached were afraid to dive...and it's not because they're afraid to get hurt, but they're afraid to miss and make things worse, or look like a fool.  Convince a kid to just go out an have fun ("Hey kids, we're down 12 runs...not like you can make it worse") they might learn some things about themselves, and then in the games where it does matter the kid knows what he's capable of.

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1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

I've been on both ends of blowouts.  As a coach, I take this as an opportunity to try things out, where mistakes aren't nearly so critical or magnified.  These kids get limited game time through the course of a season, and however much practice time we all get, there's no experience like game experience.   Give the kids some opportunities to take some risks.  One example is some kids I've coached were afraid to dive...and it's not because they're afraid to get hurt, but they're afraid to miss and make things worse, or look like a fool.  Convince a kid to just go out an have fun ("Hey kids, we're down 12 runs...not like you can make it worse") they might learn some things about themselves, and then in the games where it does matter the kid knows what he's capable of.

Only issue I would have with this is the coach who puts a kid on the bump who has no right being there.  I have seen it (and umpired it) and it is just excruciating.

Quick question, if the state or league has a mercy rule, and you allow the game to continue, are you liable if a player becomes seriously injured in that extra time?  We have had this come up in fall leagues that are primarily instructional.

I can see a family trying to recoup some medical costs suing an umpire for violating the rules and if the game had been stopped, their player would not have suffered the injury.

Thoughts?

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Only issue I would have with this is the coach who puts a kid on the bump who has no right being there.  I have seen it (and umpired it) and it is just excruciating.
Quick question, if the state or league has a mercy rule, and you allow the game to continue, are you liable if a player becomes seriously injured in that extra time?  We have had this come up in fall leagues that are primarily instructional.
I can see a family trying to recoup some medical costs suing an umpire for violating the rules and if the game had been stopped, their player would not have suffered the injury.
Thoughts?

Yes. If rules dictate it, we need to follow it. That is an easy case of negligence.

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21 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:


Yes. If rules dictate it, we need to follow it. That is an easy case of negligence.

Even at the LL level if a game is called we tell our umpires they need to leave and not work the game. If they chose to continue as a practice or scrimmage that is fine but we as the assigned officials and the representative of the assigning body cannot be part of the game at that point for liability reasons.

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1 hour ago, conbo61 said:

Only issue I would have with this is the coach who puts a kid on the bump who has no right being there.  I have seen it (and umpired it) and it is just excruciating.

Quick question, if the state or league has a mercy rule, and you allow the game to continue, are you liable if a player becomes seriously injured in that extra time?  We have had this come up in fall leagues that are primarily instructional.

I can see a family trying to recoup some medical costs suing an umpire for violating the rules and if the game had been stopped, their player would not have suffered the injury.

Thoughts?

Yeah - I'll put in a pitcher who hasn't been getting a lot of game time, but wouldn't put one in who wasn't ready for it.

To your second - yes, umpires would be at risk...as would the facility - so I've seen facility personnel intervene as well, especially in cases where the umpires have left.  That is, the facility has been rented by the league, for the purpose of a scheduled game.  If the game is over (or cancelled), then the facility staff, if present, will make you leave, for the same liability reasons an umpire would face.   Doesn't matter if you technically have the facility from 6-8...you have the facility for the duration of the game.

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