Stealing Home with Two outs

[Go Navy Beat Army]

I've been looking through the rule book for this answer and can't find it.  Bases loaded.  Two outs.  R3 attempts to steal home.  While sliding into home plate, he is hit by the pitch.  What are my options?

[ALStripes17]

I've been looking through the rule book for this answer and can't find it.  Bases loaded.  Two outs.  R3 attempts to steal home.  While sliding into home plate, he is hit by the pitch.  What are my options?

Rule the pitch what it is.


I believe all baseball rule sets agree that if a runner is hit by a pitch, then all runners are awarded one base from where they were at the time of pitch.

[ALStripes17]

Can you cite the OBR and/or FED rule for this? I really have never heard of runners being awarded a base if they are hit by a pitched ball.

OBR 5.06 8

FED 8-3-1a (also in baserunning awards table)

[ALStripes17]

OBR says a runner "trying to score".  Does this mean the award only applies if the pitch hits a runner at or near the plate.  Any other runner it would just be a dead ball?   Or do we say, philosophically, that all runners are trying to score, always.

A pitch is delivered towards home plate. Can we really create a scenario where a runner is hit by a pitch and not trying to score? Haha

[noumpere]

And, if the pitch is strike three, the batter is out, the inning is over, and no runs score.

[Mad Mike]

1 hour ago, ALStripes17 said:

Rule the pitch what it is.


I believe all baseball rule sets agree that if a runner is hit by a pitch, then all runners are awarded one base from where they were at the time of pitch.

Can you cite the OBR and/or FED rule for this? I really have never heard of runners being awarded a base if they are hit by a pitched ball.

[beerguy55]

13 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

OBR 5.06 8

FED 8-3-1a (also in baserunning awards table)

OBR says a runner "trying to score".  Does this mean the award only applies if the pitch hits a runner at or near the plate.  Any other runner it would just be a dead ball?   Or do we say, philosophically, that all runners are trying to score, always.

[Rich Ives]

27 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

OBR says a runner "trying to score".  Does this mean the award only applies if the pitch hits a runner at or near the plate.  Any other runner it would just be a dead ball?   Or do we say, philosophically, that all runners are trying to score, always.

Pretty wild pitch of it hits a runner who is not near the plate.

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, ALStripes17 said:

A pitch is delivered towards home plate. Can we really create a scenario where a runner is hit by a pitch and not trying to score? Haha

Ball slips out of pitchers hand - badly thrown curve ball, wet hand, wet ball, slips out sideways at release point in a large arc that lands about 15 feet from third base towards the shortstop.  Pitcher's hand comes across body and forgets to release ball is another possibility.  Left-handed submarine pitcher comes across body and throws ball towards left field.

Imagine something resembling either of these throws from a pitcher.  

Highly unlikely?  Sure.  Or would it be declared an illegal pitch/balk?

 

 

[maven]

35 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Highly unlikely?  Sure.  Or would it be declared an illegal pitch/balk?

What's the definition of a pitch? Do your situations satisfy it?

[Replacematt]

If a ball were to be delivered in such a way that it hits R3 before he was at a point less than halfway to home plate, we would have to determine if F1 stepped more towards third than home.

If we judge that the step was towards third, then this is a legal pickoff, and play on.

If not, this is a balk.

[Richvee]

4 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Ball slips out of pitchers hand - badly thrown curve ball, wet hand, wet ball, slips out sideways at release point in a large arc that lands about 15 feet from third base towards the shortstop.  Pitcher's hand comes across body and forgets to release ball is another possibility.  Left-handed submarine pitcher comes across body and throws ball towards left field.

Imagine something resembling either of these throws from a pitcher.  

Highly unlikely?  Sure.  Or would it be declared an illegal pitch/balk?

Balk

 

 

4 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

 

 

 

 

[Rich Ives]

6 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Ball slips out of pitchers hand - badly thrown curve ball, wet hand, wet ball, slips out sideways at release point in a large arc that lands about 15 feet from third base towards the shortstop.  Pitcher's hand comes across body and forgets to release ball is another possibility.  Left-handed submarine pitcher comes across body and throws ball towards left field.

Imagine something resembling either of these throws from a pitcher.  

Highly unlikely?  Sure.  Or would it be declared an illegal pitch/balk?

 

 

 

 

It's a pitch. It hit the runner. All runners advance. "Ball"

[ALStripes17]

 
 
It's a pitch. It hit the runner. All runners advance. "Ball"

The only part I disagree with is definitively calling the pitch a 'Ball'. We have to call the pitch what it is and it is very possible for that pitch to be a strike.

[beerguy55]

15 hours ago, maven said:

What's the definition of a pitch? Do your situations satisfy it?

What I'm unclear on is "deliver the ball to the batter".  Is this gauged by attempt or result?  If the pitcher comes through a fully legal windup/set/stretch/motion and at point of release the ball slips and goes straight sideways has he delivered the ball to the batter?  That was almost certainly his intent, but definitely not the result. Same question if he comes right through, the ball sticks in his hand, and he spikes it right into the ground.  

Or would these fall under "while touching the plate the pitcher accidentally drops the ball"?  I had imagined that as occurring anywhere from standing still, to during the windup but before point of release.

 

[ALStripes17]

What I'm unclear on is "deliver the ball to the batter".  Is this gauged by attempt or result?  If the pitcher comes through a fully legal windup/set/stretch/motion and at point of release the ball slips and goes straight sideways has he delivered the ball to the batter?  That was almost certainly his intent, but definitely not the result. Same question if he comes right through, the ball sticks in his hand, and he spikes it right into the ground.  
Or would these fall under "while touching the plate the pitcher accidentally drops the ball"?  I had imagined that as occurring anywhere from standing still, to during the windup but before point of release.
 

If it doesn't cross the foul line, it's not a pitch. With runners on, it would be a balk.



I think we are all failing to see what your actual question is, because the situations you describe would be balks if 1) the 'pitch' doesn't cross the foul line or 2) is thrown toward a base that the pitcher did not gain ground towards (since he stepped home/was in process of delivering a pitch)

[beerguy55]

Just now, ALStripes17 said:

If it doesn't cross the foul line, it's not a pitch. With runners on, it would be a balk.



I think we are all failing to see what your actual question is, because the situations you describe would be balks if 1) the 'pitch' doesn't cross the foul line or 2) is thrown toward a base that the pitcher did not gain ground towards (since he stepped home/was in process of delivering a pitch)

Perfect, thanks.  That's the piece I was missing.

[Aging_Arbiter]

19 hours ago, ALStripes17 said:

A pitch is delivered towards home plate. Can we really create a scenario where a runner is hit by a pitch and not trying to score? Haha

................Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...