Explaining Balks or Illegal Pitches

[VolUmp]

Straight from the FED Umpire Manual.

Page17   VI-23

A balk or illegal pitch may need to be explained, but never demonstrated by the umpire. Possibly there are times when it is permissible to explain what constituted the balk. In a game where learning is not a priority but the outcome of the game is, such an explanation is out of place, because it is to the advantage of the defensive team and not the umpire’s duty. If you tell how the balk was committed, it will be avoided. It’s the coach’s job, however, to instruct his pitchers in what is legal and what is not. Your job is to umpire the game.

When challenged after you penalize an illegal pitch or action, simply state, without explanation, that there was an illegality. More explanation of what constituted the illegality is permissible as learning becomes a priority over a winner-loser decision.

This is utter horse feathers. 

Can anyone here imagine acting hesitant to explain a balk or illegal pitch to a coach in a hotly contested district game?

Can anyone here imagine saying, "Coach ... there was an illegality" and not expect an immediate uproar?

Who comes up with this crap?  (Yes, Maven ... I'm extending an invitation to agree with me ...)

[ElkOil]

Seeing as how high school ball is an extension of the classroom, I'd say their line "In a game where learning is not a priority, but the outcome of the game is..." we have a philosophical conflict.

[Stk004]

11 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

Seeing as how high school ball is an extension of the classroom, I'd say their line "In a game where learning is not a priority, but the outcome of the game is..." we have a philosophical conflict.

I wonder where that line is drawn between learning oriented and competition oriented. Freshman to JV? JV to Varsity? Varsity regular season to Varsity playoffs?

[udbrky]

I think varsity will definitely be more competitive. JV is still more learning driven. Freshman - I definitely treat more as almost scrimmages. 

 

They don't say to explain it every time. But even in MLB, there's times that nobody knows what the violation is. 

 

I did more explaining too in blowouts, where they were pitching inexperienced players. Team A's down 12 and you can tell guy's pitching the 1st time, I don't want to balk him every other pitch when nobody's being deceived. 

[conbo61]

5 hours ago, ElkOil said:

Seeing as how high school ball is an extension of the classroom, I'd say their line "In a game where learning is not a priority, but the outcome of the game is..." we have a philosophical conflict.

By the umpire manual logic, when a kid gets a problem wrong on a math test, the teacher should just tell them they did it wrong and not explain the error.

Good talk...

[scrounge]

I think you're getting all outrageously outraged over a pretty minor thing, honestly. To me, explaining isn't just giving the reason for the balk - which of course you'd say - and going through a detailed play-by-play of what exactly happened. In a JV game, if a pitcher asks "what'd I do?" for a start/stop balk, and in an earnest way, sure I'll tell him "you came set twice, once you step back and come set, you can't do that shift of your arms and come set again". But in a league varsity game or playoff, when they know what they did (or should), "start/stop" is all that's necessary. I'd probably still throw in - if asked - "came set twice", but no, I'm not getting into further details. He knows.

The umpire manual has some outdated, older stuff like this, but really - it's nitpicking. I could go thru the red book or MLBUM and probably find similar anachronisms. Does this really matter? I think not.

[VolUmp]

52 minutes ago, scrounge said:

Does this really matter? I think not.

I'd love to hear you tell the FED board that their Umpire Manual that's updated every two years, "Doesn't really matter."

[scrounge]

6 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I'd love to hear you tell the FED board that their Umpire Manual that's updated every two years, "Doesn't really matter."

Dude...in no way did I say the manual doesn't matter, that's a gross extrapolation. I'm saying your overliteral interpretation of this tiny, suggestive phrase doesn't matter. This isn't that big of a deal, but if it bugs you that much....have at it.

[Stk004]

5 minutes ago, scrounge said:

Dude...in no way did I say the manual doesn't matter, that's a gross extrapolation. I'm saying your overliteral interpretation of this tiny, suggestive phrase doesn't matter. This isn't that big of a deal, but if it bugs you that much....have at it.

I think it depends what level of FED is being called. I have no idea what anyone on this board calls for HS so I'm not speaking to anyone in particular. That said, if someone only calls regular season JV and Varsity, it's not too big of an issue. But if someone is calling playoff games or the state championship, I'd imagine they would want to abide by what FED says and what their state says very strictly. 

[Umpire in Chief]

Here's my take. Regardless if it is a contested game or an "educational experience" I will explain the balk as briefly as possible; Didn't stop, didn't step, double stop, etc... But I'm not going to give a dissertation and certainly not give examples. And yes I have seen umpires take the mound and demonstrate what the pitcher did and it makes me cringe. 

I would never just say there was an infraction... That's asking for trouble. 

[mrumpiresir]

41 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I'd love to hear you tell the FED board that their Umpire Manual that's updated every two years, "Doesn't really matter."

I've been a member of three different state HS associations and none of them use the Fed Umpire manual. Much of the manual makes no sense, and as a result, those umpire manuals usually end up in the circular file.  Much better to use the NCAA manual or the MLBUM.

[maven]

I agree with Warren. There's a difference between explaining the call (to the coach) and explaining how not to do that again (to the pitcher).

Coaches are entitled to know what the call is, in order that they can judge whether the rule is being applied correctly (esp. where protests are allowed). It would be unreasonable — and not what the FED manual is getting at — for an umpire to refuse to explain the basis of a balk call (no step, no stop, start/stop, etc.).

But at HS varsity and up, we should not stop the game in order to explain to the pitcher what he did wrong. That's the part that "helps the defense," and a job for the coach. This is the counsel I see in the FED manual, and I agree with it.

At instructional levels, we can stop and make sure F1 understands what he did wrong.

[kylehutson]

I've never had a varsity game where I've had to give more info than "start-stop" or "no set". Even when a coach isn't paying attention, that suffices to explain (usually ending with "Hey Joe, be sure you come set" (or whatever).

Sub-varsity, sometimes the coaches don't even know the rules, and will ask me to show them (or even the pitcher) what they did wrong. If they ask, I'm happy to oblige. I take no more than about 15 seconds to demonstrate or explain what I saw *wrong*. I tell what they need to do to correct it, but don't demonstrate that.

[VolUmp]

7 hours ago, scrounge said:

Dude...in no way did I say the manual doesn't matter, that's a gross extrapolation. I'm saying your overliteral interpretation of this tiny, suggestive phrase doesn't matter. This isn't that big of a deal, but if it bugs you that much....have at it.

Fair enough ... perhaps it was a gross extrapolation.  By my comment in the OP, I shall completely ignore the crap written in the FED Ump Manual and handle it the way I always have ... using common sense.  No long explanation, no going to the mound and demonstrating, but a short concise answer on the balk or illegal pitch no matter what the stakes of the game are.  Now ... there are balks where the coach saw it and therefore doesn't even question it.  All the better. I'm not giving an explanation, because it's not necessary ... NOT because the FED Ump Manual said not to.

7 hours ago, Umpire in Chief said:

Here's my take. Regardless if it is a contested game or an "educational experience" I will explain the balk as briefly as possible; Didn't stop, didn't step, double stop, etc... But I'm not going to give a dissertation and certainly not give examples. And yes I have seen umpires take the mound and demonstrate what the pitcher did and it makes me cringe. I would never just say there was an infraction... That's asking for trouble. 

AGREED.  And the book actually states, "There was an illegality."  Really? Who speaks that way?  No one.

[VolUmp]

7 hours ago, mrumpiresir said:

I've been a member of three different state HS associations and none of them use the Fed Umpire manual. Much of the manual makes no sense, and as a result, those umpire manuals usually end up in the circular file.  Much better to use the NCAA manual or the MLBUM.

Precisely.  I've never used it.  I'm in an unenviable spot of explaining to new umpires in our Association why they shouldn't use the book that comes every two years with their annual dues, but should spend money on the CCA manual and other similar books to learn correctly.  As I was making notes last night in the FED Ump Manual, for example, it explains that an illegal pitch results in a ball awarded the batter.  It completely omits what's in the Rules Book and Case Book that with runner(s) on, the illegal pitch is a balk.

[VolUmp]

7 hours ago, maven said:

Coaches are entitled to know what the call is, in order that they can judge whether the rule is being applied correctly (esp. where protests are allowed). It would be unreasonable — and not what the FED manual is getting at — for an umpire to refuse to explain the basis of a balk call (no step, no stop, start/stop, etc.).

Maven, you're giving too much credit to FED.  Please read word for word my OP.  That's verbatim from the FED Umpire Manual.  It's wrong.  It's foolhardy. It's not just slightly mis-worded.  It's a clear mandate to say, "There was an illegality" and nothing more. This is the area where I find Head Coaches to be the most ignorant, unless they have a strong background in pitching or working as a pitching coach. Many couldn't name 4 examples of an illegal pitch.  Many couldn't name more than 5 types of balks. To keep the game moving along, and not start any consternation, you CAN'T say, "There was an illegality" and nothing more.

[dumbdumb]

can we just blow the whistle and throw the flag, and then start marching off yardage in football? And, blow the whistle and just go to the foul line in basketball. Sure would speed up the games that turn into a free throw contest. If any one asks by chance. Just say there was an illegality so let's play ball coach.

[udbrky]

4 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

can we just blow the whistle and throw the flag, and then start marching off yardage in football? And, blow the whistle and just go to the foul line in basketball. Sure would speed up the games that turn into a free throw contest. If any one asks by chance. Just say there was an illegality so let's play ball coach.

In football, they can get pretty long winded in an explanation. In basketball, you usually report the type of foul too. 

[catsbackr]

VolUmp,

 

I think this may go back to umpiring "with" the rule book and not "by" the rule book.

 

I work with our new guys, too, and I instruct them to keep their balk/illegal pitch explanation to less than 5 words.

[jjb]

I can name that balk in.....2 words...

No step

No stop

Double set

Anyone else want to play?

[Replacematt]

3 minutes ago, jjb said:

I can name that balk in.....2 words...

No step

No stop

Double set

Anyone else want to play?

"Looked weird."

"Seemed illegal."

[noumpere]

"mustaben sumpten"

'hecan't dothat"

 

[VolUmp]

5 hours ago, jjb said:

I can name that balk in.....2 words...

No step

No stop

Double set

Anyone else want to play?

There was an illegality.

[BT_Blue]

25 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

There was an illegality.

To many words.

Another thing to think about. Much like OBR written for pro ball, the rule book for FED is written for the varsity level of the game.

[Stk004]

1 minute ago, BT_Blue said:

To many words.

Another thing to think about. Much like OBR written for pro ball, the rule book for FED is written for the varsity level of the game.

And yet the MLBUM  (I know, not the OBR rulebook) encourages balk explanations.