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Errant IFF Call


VolUmp
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I'm PU.  16u playing OBR.  R1 and no outs.

Batter hits a high pop where F4 camps under it, and my partner points and erroneously calls loudly, "Infield Fly – batter's out!"

(In our scenario, F4 caught it and there was no drama).

For discussion's sake, I ask:

    1) What should I have done (if anything) in real time.

    2) Had F4 allowed the ball to drop untouched and gotten a double play out of it, how should we have ruled?

    3) Had F4 legitimately missed the catch, such as he lost it in the sun, and the batter and R1 ended up together on 1B, *and both tagged, how should we rule?

Would welcome this board's perspective.  All I'll say editorially is, I despise the "It's the players' and coaches' responsibility to know when it's an IFF situation" defense.

(*edited)

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  1. You wouldn't be wrong to do nothing. Everyone is responsible for knowing better. But I confess, once I said, "No, it isn't!" and everyone (including my partner) laughed.
  2. Sounds like a really slow BR. But if you judge that he stopped because an umpire said "Infield fly, the batter's out!" and you reverse the call, then you can award him 1B and let R1's out stand.
  3. Two runners at a base does not call for a call: that's not a play. If they're both tagged while on the base, R1 is out (that's a play, and requires a call).
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Well, for HS and above, the thing you despise is the way it should be handled. However the play ends up, it ends up, and you guys get to eat the SH*# sandwich. If there is time, you may be able to "wave off" the incorrect call by coming up with an equally-, if not more, emphatic call that indicates that it is not in effect.

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From the 2016 BRD (section 278, p. 180):

Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt:  If an umpire calls an infield fly when the requirements of the runners’ positions, or the number of outs, are not met, the play shall proceed as if no infield fly were called. If any umpire notices the error of the calling umpire’s decision, he should immediately call and signal that there is no infield fly. (WRIM section 2.2.2a, pp.15-16)

Play 137-278:  R2, R3. B1 lifts an easy fly to the infield with the first baseman getting ready for the catch. The field umpire erroneously calls:  “Infield fly; the batter is out.” The first baseman drops the ball but recovers in time to throw out R3 at home as BR stops on first and R2 takes third. Ruling:  The declaration of “infield fly” does not an infield fly make: “The situation determines the out, not the declaration.” The play stands at all levels.

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On 12/21/2016 at 10:00 PM, maven said:

You wouldn't be wrong to do nothing. Everyone is responsible for knowing better. But I confess, once I said, "No, it isn't!" and everyone (including my partner) laughed.

Turns out, this is the correct mechanic!

6 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt:  If an umpire calls an infield fly when the requirements of the runners’ positions, or the number of outs, are not met, the play shall proceed as if no infield fly were called. If any umpire notices the error of the calling umpire’s decision, he should immediately call and signal that there is no infield fly. (WRIM section 2.2.2a, pp.15-16)

I don't think I'll be teaching it: can you imagine umpires arguing about this? "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!!" Ha.

Wendelstedt advises to "call and signal": what's the "no infield fly" signal? ;)

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3 hours ago, maven said:

Turns out, this is the correct mechanic!

I don't think I'll be teaching it: can you imagine umpires arguing about this? "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!!" Ha.

Wendelstedt advises to "call and signal": what's the "no infield fly" signal? ;)

Probably yelling no no no while giving a safe mechanic 

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A few years back I was working a JuCo fall ball game. I spaces on the number of outs.

Pop up to F4 and I shout IFF. DHC shouts at me "there were already two outs" and I respond "yes there was", smiled, and ran to short right with my tail between my legs. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/21/2016 at 6:13 PM, VolUmp said:

  All I'll say editorially is, I despise the "It's the players' and coaches' responsibility to know when it's an IFF situation" defense.

 

I think in this scenario that the players and coaches should know it's not an IFF and play accordingly - at this point it's not a judgment call, it's a technical error and you have to know/trust it will get corrected, either immediately or by protest....ie, R1 should be ready to go if the ball drops, and BR should not stop running.  It's how I have treated it as a coach, and I've actually raised this scenario in off-season chalk talk sessions.  When I was coaching softball U12 there was no IFF rule for that level...it didn't take effect until U14 - can't remember if this was/is a Softball Canada rule or a community rule - and sometimes umpires would forget which category they were umping, or simply forget the rule change.

It's the opposite situation where I agree with you - when an IFF situation is in effect, yet the players are unclear on the judgment of the umpire to whether "ordinary effort" has taken effect, especially when they see or hear no mechanic from any umpire.  And sometimes umpires just freeze up here - especially the younger or less experienced ones.  If the ball drops, the runners don't know if they are forced to run, or if they're running at their own risk, because they don't know what the umpire has judged - especially on those plays in the shallow outfield that could be called either way.   It's the one scenario where a defensive team could end up in a double or even triple play, through no fault of their own, when the rule was meant to prevent that exact scenario.  And I know there's no mechanism for it, but this is one of the few times where I wish an ump could say "my bad, I froze up, that actually was an infield fly - batter out, return runners to first and second'.   

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:07 PM, VolUmp said:

OBR does state that the ump shall fix a "cheap double play" due to an umpire error on an errant call (or non-call) ... it just doesn't state "how" to fix it.

easy... return the runners to their TOP bases

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2 minutes ago, JSam21 said:

Ok... Give me one and I'll give you a solution

 

I can find a solution — that's not the point. It won't always be your "One size fits all" solution.

The other point being — OBR doesn't spell out the solutions.

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42 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I can find a solution — that's not the point. It won't always be your "One size fits all" solution.

The other point being — OBR doesn't spell out the solutions.

But it's still the solution and is what is (or was) taught.  It's what would have happened in 99.9% of the cases where in infield fly should have been called, wasn't and this enables the defense to turn the "cheap double play." 

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