Pitch Counts

[kylehutson]

My state just released their rules on pitch counts. I'm just curious how it compares to other states (or whether others have even released their rules yet).

http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Baseball/PDF/PitchCountRule.pdf

[ALStripes17]

My state just released their rules on pitch counts. I'm just curious how it compares to other states (or whether others have even released their rules yet).

http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/Baseball/PDF/PitchCountRule.pdf

Couldn't tell ya. Because the umpires in Alabama aren't responsible for it at all

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[JonnyCat]

Very similar to LL pitching regulations.

[Jackrabbitslims]

I may have ran into someone on this committee in my state. He was hoping for an independent person to count pitches who would receive pay for services. For this year it would present a problem if you call games for non-affluent schools. School budgets are set months in advance and by the time baseball season comes around they are hoping not to run out of money for the teachers let alone another person to "count pitches" Have to wait a few more days for official word.

[BT_Blue]

Still waiting on Oregon and Washington. Hopefully soon.

I keep reading them at Georgia will have to supply a third umpire for the sole purpose of counting pitches for that game.

[grayhawk]

The proposed process for CA is that both home and visitors should be counting pitches, and the coaches and scorekeepers are to confirm that counts each half inning.  The umpires are not to be part of the process other than to be aware that the teams are working with each other to confirm pitch counts.  In the event of a discrepancy, the home book takes precedent.  The Executive Council votes on this in January.

[JonnyCat]

GH. I heard here in California that the pitch count limit was going to be 120. Is that what you heard? I think that is way too many for HS.

[grayhawk]

52 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

GH. I heard here in California that the pitch count limit was going to be 120. Is that what you heard? I think that is way too many for HS.

110 for Varsity
90 for sub-Varsity

1-30 - No days rest
31-50 - 1 Day rest
51-75 - 2 Days rest
76+ - 3 Days rest

[JonnyCat]

1 minute ago, grayhawk said:

110 for Varsity
90 for sub-Varsity

1-30 - No days rest
31-50 - 1 Day rest
51-75 - 2 Days rest
76+ - 3 Days rest

Is that set by State, or by individual sections?

[grayhawk]

1 minute ago, JonnyCat said:

Is that set by State, or by individual sections?

Not certain, but I think it's for the whole state.

[JonnyCat]

1 minute ago, grayhawk said:

Not certain, but I think it's for the whole state.

I hope it is, but 110 is still too many, IMO. While I am a huge proponent of pitch counts, it still can have negative effects. Often coaches look at the pitch counts as absolute numbers, not just as guidelines. I'll see coaches throw kids the max amount right at the start of the season, and not build up to it. They think, "Well it says I can throw him 110, so that's what I'll do."

Pitch counts should come with some guidelines for some of these coaches I've seen. At least its a start in the right direction, although I would like to see the max as 90 for all levels of HS.

[grayhawk]

5 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

I hope it is, but 110 is still too many, IMO. While I am a huge proponent of pitch counts, it still can have negative effects. Often coaches look at the pitch counts as absolute numbers, not just as guidelines. I'll see coaches throw kids the max amount right at the start of the season, and not build up to it. They think, "Well it says I can throw him 110, so that's what I'll do."

Pitch counts should come with some guidelines for some of these coaches I've seen. At least its a start in the right direction, although I would like to see the max as 90 for all levels of HS.

I don't even pretend to know what the right number is.  I do know that many pros aren't allowed to get to 110 pitches in a game, but back in "the day" pitchers going 150+ wasn't all that unusual either.

[udbrky]

Funny thing is, now there's a lot of camps that don't think pitch counts are the biggest contributor to Tommy John.

 

I've been reading The Arm and have followed Driveline Baseball for years and think he's doing great stuff.

[scrounge]

21 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I don't even pretend to know what the right number is.  I do know that many pros aren't allowed to get to 110 pitches in a game, but back in "the day" pitchers going 150+ wasn't all that unusual either.

 

1 hour ago, udbrky said:

Funny thing is, now there's a lot of camps that don't think pitch counts are the biggest contributor to Tommy John.

 

I've been reading The Arm and have followed Driveline Baseball for years and think he's doing great stuff.

Yea, but back in 'the day', they could afford to burn thru 20 busted arms to get to that 1 special rubber elbow dude who could pitch 150+. Can't do that anymore.

[JonnyCat]

21 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I don't even pretend to know what the right number is.  I do know that many pros aren't allowed to get to 110 pitches in a game, but back in "the day" pitchers going 150+ wasn't all that unusual either.

It's not just the high number of pitches in one season that contributes to arm injuries. It's the constant pitching throughout the year with no off time to rest the arms that is one of the biggest contributors to arm injuries. Kids pitch HS, then travel-ball, then showcase, etc. From what I understand, as well, its not just pitchers suffering a surge in arm injuries, but position players, also.

Pitch counts are great, but if they are not recognized by other organizations, then they can only be somewhat effective. Coaches of different organizations need to monitor what other teams their kids are playing on and adjust accordingly. Honestly, this whole playing one sport all year round has gotten out of hand. I mean realistically, how many future professional players can be produced? Most never play past high school, yet all our sports treat their programs as if every kid is going to get drafted. You have a better chance (albeit a small one) to play college sports. In San Diego County last year, only 3 kids were drafted onto MLB teams. Yet every Jack A$$ coach around here acts as if their whole team is going pro, and that's how the run their program.  Some of them really believe that an umpires bad call could cost a kid a scholarship or pro contract. I'm not kidding, it's unbelievable how delusional and uber competitive the coaches and programs are here in SoCal. 

All right, sorry to get off track. I'm off my soapbox now!

BTW, I know a young coach now in his 30's that can't even throw a baseball anymore. His college coach routinely threw him 120-150 pitches per outing. Sometimes the residual effects don't show up until years later.

[udbrky]

Mechanics and strengthening the arm; how they train; how they throw, lots of things contribute, and it has to get changed all the way to when kids start playing.

[VolUmp]

Here's Tennessee's solution FWIW.

No umpire involvement whatsoever.  I concur that 120 is too high for HS Varsity.

If a pro throws 120 in 7 innings, he's usually not having a great day.

https://tssaa.org/wp-content/uploads/Baseball/PitchCountRegulations.pdf

GUIDELINES:
1. Cannot use the same pitcher three (3) days in a row regardless of number of pitches thrown.
2. If pitcher hits his END number, he's allowed to finish the batter in the box.
3. Highly recommended that a coach check with a coach on the opposing team between each half
inning to make sure pitch counts are in congruent. (the same)
4. Home team would be final correct count.
5. Both teams would sign documentation pitch form at the end of each game.
6. The pitch count will apply to a player who pitches. JV pitch count and high school varsity pitch
count would be linked together. Example – Pitcher A pitches Varsity on Monday 45 pitches, not
allowed to pitch JV on Tuesday.
7. The pitch count applies to regular season and postseason.

Varsity                                                     

1-25      0 days rest

26-55    1 day rest

56-75    2 days rest

76-119  3 days rest

120  Max per appearance.  4 days rest

Freshman/JV                                        

1-25      0 days rest

26-40    1 day rest

41-65    2 days rest

66-99    3 days rest

100  Max per appearance.  4 days rest

Middle School                                       

1-19     0 days rest

20-35   1 day rest

36-55   2 days rest

56-84   3 days rest

85  Max per appearance.  4 days rest

[stevis]

FWIW, Little League's international pitch counts for high school age players:

Age 17-18 105 pitches

Age 15-16 95 pitches

 

 

[ricka56]

In Texas, The following rule statement is all I need to know: 

Umpires will NOT have any kind of jurisdiction or involvement in pitch count.

Pitch counts are kept by designated HT personnel. HT reports pitch counts to the district within 48 hours. The district keeps records and handles any violations. 

[VolUmp]

I don't do Little League, but how are intentional walks handled?  By Announcement?

I would assume in FED that you don't ding F1 for four pitches if he intentionally walks a batter.

[kylehutson]

28 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

I would assume in FED that you don't ding F1 for four pitches if he intentionally walks a batter.

NFHS Rule 2-4-3:

Quote

An intentional base on balls may be given by the defensive team by having its catcher or coach request the umpire to award the batter first base. This may be done before pitching to the batter or on any ball and strike count. The ball shall be declared dead before making the award.

So they make it easy. If he throws a pitch, it counts.

[VolUmp]

Let me clarify ...

I was asking if in LL you can walk a batter by announcement.

And unless the 2017 book has newer language, FED 2-4-3 says nothing regarding the pitch count not being affected by an intentional walk.

[maineump]

6 minutes ago, VolUmp said:

Let me clarify ...

I was asking if in LL you can walk a batter by announcement.

And unless the 2017 book has newer language, FED 2-4-3 says nothing regarding the pitch count not being affected by an intentional walk.

This year in LL, you can walk by announcement, but you add 4 pitches to the count.

Have not heard any language about FED doing the same.

[dumbdumb]

On 12/9/2016 at 1:13 PM, BT_Blue said:

Still waiting on Oregon and Washington. Hopefully soon.

I keep reading them at Georgia will have to supply a third umpire for the sole purpose of counting pitches for that game.

how do you apply for a position as a PCU-pitch count umpire. Sounds so extremely physical and mentally taxing/challenging as to need a day off between assignments.

but then again, i have heard of people applying to be a professional 2nd base umpire.

[Stk004]

1 hour ago, dumbdumb said:

how do you apply for a position as a PCU-pitch count umpire. Sounds so extremely physical and mentally taxing/challenging as to need a day off between assignments.

but then again, i have heard of people applying to be a professional 2nd base umpire.

Still more work than 3rd base.