Awarding bases

[th3]

Any tips on realizing the positions of the runners at the time of throw? I often find that by the time a ball goes out of play (for example a throw from the outfield that goes through the infield and eventually rolls out next to the backstop), I have no idea if the runner had reached 2nd at TOT. And, in a 2 man game, who should be paying attention to that? U1 awards bases right?

thanks

 

[maven]

Both umpires have responsibility to see runners touch bases: typically, BU watches runners touch 1B and 2B, and PU watches runners touch 3B and HP.

If you're watching your touches properly, you will know which happens first, touch or throw. Watch runner touch, then pick up the ball. 

Umpires should place runners as a crew if there's any question. Once a runner has touched 2B, he's going to be awarded HP on an overthrow out of play, so PU won't need to say much to get the award right.

As for who actually says, "You, score, you, 2B," generally it's the umpire with coverage of the ball going out. So on a ground rule double, it would be BU. A ball thrown into the dugout will usually be PU.

[noumpere]

If you are having trouble doing this, it means you are not comfortable enough with all the other things you need to be doing to pick this up.  It happens when the game slows down enough for you to be able to see more /add more tasks to your list.

 

That's not meant as a slam on you (or anyone else) -- it's just the way it works for all of us, in all the tasks that we perform on a daily basis.

[th3]

I guess this is what I'm looking for:

 

If you're watching your touches properly, you will know which happens first, touch or throw. Watch runner touch, then pick up the ball. 

 

Something for me to note/work on 

[maineump]

1 hour ago, th3 said:

I guess this is what I'm looking for:

 

If you're watching your touches properly, you will know which happens first, touch or throw. Watch runner touch, then pick up the ball. 

 

Something for me to note/work on 

Remember to keep your head on a swivel, and keep track of the RUNNERS your are responsible for (instead of thinking of it in which bases you are responsible for) and when your responsibilities end on a runner (ex: 3B). Both umpires should keep an eye on the ball as well.

[LittleBlue]

I asked about this when I was starting to work higher level games with better umpires. The best answer I got was that if you are doing what you are supposed to do you will be surprised how much you notice that you did not notice before. I agree with what everyone has said, watch the touches every time and you will be able to determine where the runners were at TOT easily.

[JSam21]

Angles... be able to see your runners and the ball. 

[BT_Blue]

6 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Angles... be able to see your runners and the ball. 

Some times not entirely possible in a two man system.

[maven]

11 hours ago, JSam21 said:

Angles... be able to see your runners and the ball. 

 

5 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

Some times not entirely possible in a two man system.

I'm going to disagree with both.

When the ball is "loose" and players are on the move — I'm thinking batted ball until it comes into a base for a play — we're either where we should be or on our way there.

During that time, we watch the ball, glance at runners. We do not think about angles yet, as there's no play: angles set up a look at a play, and they have nothing to do with our positioning in the working area (BU) or library (PU).

As for possibility: unless we're dealing with a neck injury, we can always watch the ball, glance at runners. Just turn the head.

[BT_Blue]

I was taking JSam's statement more literally than figuratively. It is not always possible to create and angle where you will always see a runners position and the ball at all times.

[maven]

32 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

I was taking JSam's statement more literally than figuratively. It is not always possible to create and angle where you will always see a runners position and the ball at all times.

My point was not to disagree with this statement, which is fine as far as it goes.

Rather, I disagree with the implicit suggestion that we need to do so. The only people who need to do so are the ones who can't turn their heads.

[catsbackr]

Many times, the plate umpire has a much BIGGER view of the entire field.  He can "freeze" the field at the time of the throw and have a much better idea of base runner positions.  Many times but not all the time.

[MidAmUmp]

Start with understanding priorities & responsibilities

I think we all know who's responsible for each base touch. No need to address that.

So let's discuss priorities... only 3 things can happen without the baseball - interference, obstruction & base touches. So understand your #1 priority is status of the ball. Only take your eye off the ball when a runner is getting close to a base making sure he clears any fielder, touches the base and clears any subsequent fielder. Watch the ball, glance at the runner.

Sometimes the ball is going to be released as we're glancing and we can't say with 100% certainty that the runner had/had not achieved the advance base at the time of the throw...but we can make an educated guess. When in absolute doubt, give the benefit of the doubt to the runner. They didn't screw up and throw the ball out of play.

I'll leave you with this -

Base awards are actually pretty easy when you think about it. Surely we're not getting confused on 2 bases time of pitch, right? That said, the only time confusion sets in is with multiple runners and a ball hit to the outfield. In those situations keep the following information in mind:

R3 always scores
R2 always scores
R1 can only go to 3rd or scores
B/R - can only go to 2nd or 3rd (unless he's past 2nd at the TOT - at which point it becomes pretty easy again)

If R1 scores, the chances are pretty good B/R gets 3rd.
If R1 gets 3rd, B/R can only get 2nd.

[Umpire in Chief]

On 10/26/2016 at 11:43 AM, th3 said:

Something for me to note/work on 

Exactly.. IMO this is something that comes with time and making a conscious effort to notice it. 

 

4 hours ago, MidAmUmp said:

Sometimes the ball is going to be released as we're glancing and we can't say with 100% certainty that the runner had/had not achieved the advance base at the time of the throw...but we can make an educated guess. When in absolute doubt, give the benefit of the doubt to the runner. They didn't screw up and throw the ball out of play.

^^^ Excellent Advice

[VolUmp]

And for th3, since you made the OP, the strange scenario where you can't always award each runner two bases has come into play at least ten times in my 13 years.

You have R1, Batter hits a trouble ball into shallow right or center, R1 only goes half way to read the ball, and it drops.  The outfielder then tries for the force play at 2B after the batter has rounded 1B, and he air mails it into the 3B dugout.  R1 goes to 3B, but you can't also send the B/R to 3B.  There will be offensive coaches who insist that you should score R1 and put the B/R on 3B ... whether by ignorance or gamesmanship.

We review this scenario every February for our HS Association.