Stopping while making the pitch

[stl_ump]

This was in the game between the Jays and the Indians on Tuesday.  R3

Roberto Osuna was pitching (RHP) and he was in the stretch.  He was pitching "normally" with the leg lift and then going home.  All of a sudden I see him lift the leg and come to a complete stop for a second or two and then continue to home.  I thought maybe my DVR had hiccuped or something it was so noticeable.  But I backed it up and looked at it again and sure enough he had come to a complete stop.  Even the announcers mentioned that he "hesitated" in order to throw off the timing of the batter.

I was under the assumption that once a pitcher started his delivery to home that he couldn't stop...  that it had to be one continuous motion.

If a pitcher CAN pause, then a LHP with an R1 could just lift his leg and pause / hold it there to make sure the runner wasn't stealing.

Thanks

(looked for video but couldn't find any)

 

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

This was in the game between the Jays and the Indians on Tuesday.  R3

Roberto Osuna was pitching (RHP) and he was in the stretch.  He was pitching "normally" with the leg lift and then going home.  All of a sudden I see him lift the leg and come to a complete stop for a second or two and then continue to home.  I thought maybe my DVR had hiccuped or something it was so noticeable.  But I backed it up and looked at it again and sure enough he had come to a complete stop.  Even the announcers mentioned that he "hesitated" in order to throw off the timing of the batter.

I was under the assumption that once a pitcher started his delivery to home that he couldn't stop...  that it had to be one continuous motion.

If a pitcher CAN pause, then a LHP with an R1 could just lift his leg and pause / hold it there to make sure the runner wasn't stealing.

Thanks

(looked for video but couldn't find any)

 

Maybe something else was moving? Or, they didn't want to balk in a run in the postseason? They certainly don't shy away from it in the regular season.

[stl_ump]

I found some video.  There are 3 videos here.  The first one is his normal delivery.  The second one was about the amount of "stop" time I saw with the R3.  The 3rd one was much longer than what I saw.  

Tell me what you guys think.

http://bluejayhunter.com/2016/09/roberto-osuna-messing-up-hitters-timing-in-various-ways.html

[maven]

As you can see in each of the clips, something is still moving even when he "hesitates."

Were everything to come to a complete stop, it would be a balk.

https://cdn-w1.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/37bj.mp4?token=1478192310_261897b29b3683b105615f084d0c4105ec431d73

[stl_ump]

So as long as he is "wiggling" something, no matter how small of a movement or how long he does it, it's not a balk?

If that's the case than I could see how this could get really subjective, especially at the lower levels where a kid is coming set but he's still got something going on somewhere.

Thanks

 

[Replacematt]

13 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

So as long as he is "wiggling" something, no matter how small of a movement or how long he does it, it's not a balk?

If that's the case than I could see how this could get really subjective, especially at the lower levels where a kid is coming set but he's still got something going on somewhere.

Thanks

 

If he's still got something going on somewhere, he's not coming set.

[maven]

All that said, in an amateur game:

• When F1 is obviously coming set, something will have to be moving quite a bit (or F1 just rushes through it) for me to call a no-stop balk
• After F1 has started his motion to pitch, everything will have to be absolutely still for some time for me to call a start/stop balk

These are my guidelines. Amateur ball in your area might have more or less relaxed criteria. Especially for the second, once F1 is committed to pitch, it's hard to see that he's getting much advantage over the runner by a "pause," and the balk rules are to protect the runner, not the batter.

[stl_ump]

OK... let's just say for arguments sake that a pitcher actually came to a complete stop while lifting his leg with a runner on.  That would be a balk right?  If so, what rule are we using to call the balk?  The only thing that I can find that might apply would be this"

6.02 (5.07)(f ), (g), (i), ( j) Pitcher Illegal Action
(a) (8.05) Balks
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when:
(1) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion
naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such
delivery;

I can't find anything about not stopping once you have started.

Thanks

 

[maven]

How about this:

Quote

After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption.

together with:

Quote

If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when:

(5) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;

 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, stl_ump said:

OK... let's just say for arguments sake that a pitcher actually came to a complete stop while lifting his leg with a runner on.  That would be a balk right?  If so, what rule are we using to call the balk?  The only thing that I can find that might apply would be this"

6.02 (5.07)(f ), (g), (i), ( j) Pitcher Illegal Action
(a) (8.05) Balks
If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when:
(1) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion
naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such
delivery;

I can't find anything about not stopping once you have started.

Thanks

 

There might be some people on times square or wherever that could come set with the free foot in the air and not be guilty of a balk. If perfected it might beet a slide step. I wouldn't have a balk if someone could do this.

[stl_ump]

10 hours ago, maven said:

"After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption."

That will work nicely. 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[stl_ump]

19 hours ago, maven said:

As you can see in each of the clips, something is still moving even when he "hesitates."

Were everything to come to a complete stop, it would be a balk.

https://cdn-w1.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/37bj.mp4?token=1478192310_261897b29b3683b105615f084d0c4105ec431d73

So... getting back to the video.  When he lifts that leg and "pauses / hesitates / whatever it's called", why wouldn't this constitute and "interruption"?  To my obviously untrained eye, it just looks like he starts, then "pauses", then continues. 

Thanks

 

[maven]

It's not an interruption by interpretation unless the umpire judges that everything stops.

Didn't we answer that already?

[stl_ump]

 

3 minutes ago, maven said:

It's not an interruption by interpretation unless the umpire judges that everything stops.

Didn't we answer that already?

Calm down now...   If you don't want to continue this discussion that's fine.  No worries.

I'm just trying understand this.  He comes set.  He starts his delivery, he pauses at the top of his leg lift, but he hasn't really stopped (or interrupted anything) since some part of his body is still slightly moving, and then he continues on with his pitch. No balk.

Good thing I'm not out there. 

Thanks for tolerating my questions. ;-)

 

[Thunderheads]

For me, and my level (coach pitch) ...that's a pause  

[stl_ump]

5 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

For me, and my level (coach pitch) ...that's a pause  

Excellent! 

[Rich Ives]

13 hours ago, maven said:

How about this:

together with:

 

What's illegal pitch have to do with it? An IP is only a quick pitch or a pitch while not in contact.

[Senor Azul]

From the Wendelstedt Rules Interpretation Manual (2013 edition, p. 102): it is a balk if a pitcher, “suspends his foot in the air (he stopped his delivery) in an attempt to hold a runner.”

Play 132:  R1, no outs, no count. The left-handed pitcher, after coming stopped in the set position, raises his non-pivot foot off the ground and suspends it in the air, freezing R1. He then steps and throws to first base in an attempt to pick-off R1. Ruling:  This is a balk.

From the Jaksa/Roder manual (2010 edition, p. 138):  it is a balk if a pitcher hesitates or interrupts his motion to pitch…

Example (b):  R1. A left-handed pitcher lifts his free foot and suspends it, unmoving, for a split second before proceeding in his motion to throw: hesitation, balk.

[stl_ump]

Very interesting...

So I guess it comes down to who's defining "hesitates, interrupts, suspends or unmoving"

Thanks.