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Incoming pitcher situational information relaying


udbrky
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Wow.  I've never really given this topic that much thought before.  I will say to assume that every umpire that does this is "grandstanding" is absurd.  Some things we are taught and some things we just pick up as we go.  Just like the previous thread regarding calling location is specifically to avoid the coach and/or catcher asking the questions I have always viewed briefing the pitcher as avoiding the question or the inevitable pitcher having to step off the rubber because he didn't know the situation.

FWIW I seldom do it because I'm busy counting pitches and worrying about the fielders and runners knowing when it's time to get back into position.  But I really don't care if people are looking at me and that thought has never crossed my mind when I've briefed a pitcher or when a partner has.  I've never looked at is as something that is mandatory or should be done.  I've only looked at it as being nice and establishing rapport with the players while at the same time giving pertinent information before being asked.

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1 hour ago, udbrky said:

I've never seen someone brief a pinch runner or hitter

Exactly, @udbrky, you haven't because no umpire does or should. There are two base coaches who have been engaged in the game thus far, right? This PR or PB is coming off the bench having watched (to varying degrees of attentiveness) the previous action, no? He's got a whole slew of teammates around to tell him, doesn't he? I mean, if a PR or CR trots out to 2B and he looks like he just finished a game of "pull my finger" in the dugout, and neither the 1BC or 3BC has hollered to him to tell him how many outs there are, and none of his teammates are tellin' him, or the sneaky F4 says, "Hey how's it goin'? You know there's 1 out, right?", and the now-R2 asks, "How many outs, Blue?", I can hold up the correct number of fingers to him (there's 2 outs, you crafty F4 weasel), that I'll do. But do I stand out there near the base and make a point of telling him the situation as he's trotting out to put on his helmet? Eff no.

If a batter is assuming a previous batter's count, then by all means, the PU should brief him, but that's going to be done within the dirt circle and rather innocuously. Sure, the PU might give the count to everyone again, but he's not going to give a situational summary and gesture towards each occupied base.

Then why do some umpires do this with new pitchers??!?!

Grandstanding. Plain and simple. That new F1 was already (or should have been) briefed by his coach that summoned him to the mound, right? He's got 8 other teammates, 5 in close proximity to what's been going on already, doesn't he? He _has_ been watching this game, hasn't he? It's not like he's been brought up from a cellar or unpacked from a crate. So why is PU standing about 25-45 feet away, on the infield, mask in hand, giving F1 the situation like a director giving an actor the scene details and prompts prior to calling, "Action!"? Why is BU doing this?

Oh. Director. Oh I get it, the director is the guy in charge. Ah, now it makes sense.

Grandstanding.

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3 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Exactly, @udbrky, you haven't because no umpire does or should. There are two base coaches who have been engaged in the game thus far, right? This PR or PB is coming off the bench having watched (to varying degrees of attentiveness) the previous action, no? He's got a whole slew of teammates around to tell him, doesn't he? I mean, if a PR or CR trots out to 2B and he looks like he just finished a game of "pull my finger" in the dugout, and neither the 1BC or 3BC has hollered to him to tell him how many outs there are, and none of his teammates are tellin' him, or the sneaky F4 says, "Hey how's it goin'? You know there's 1 out, right?", and the now-R2 asks, "How many outs, Blue?", I can hold up the correct number of fingers to him (there's 2 outs, you crafty F4 weasel), that I'll do. But do I stand out there near the base and make a point of telling him the situation as he's trotting out to put on his helmet? Eff no.

If a batter is assuming a previous batter's count, then by all means, the PU should brief him, but that's going to be done within the dirt circle and rather innocuously. Sure, the PU might give the count to everyone again, but he's not going to give a situational summary and gesture towards each occupied base.

Then why do some umpires do this with new pitchers??!?!

Grandstanding. Plain and simple. That new F1 was already (or should have been) briefed by his coach that summoned him to the mound, right? He's got 8 other teammates, 5 in close proximity to what's been going on already, doesn't he? He _has_ been watching this game, hasn't he? It's not like he's been brought up from a cellar or unpacked from a crate. So why is PU standing about 25-45 feet away, on the infield, mask in hand, giving F1 the situation like a director giving an actor the scene details and prompts prior to calling, "Action!"? Why is BU doing this?

Oh. Director. Oh I get it, the director is the guy in charge. Ah, now it makes sense.

Grandstanding.

If they were grandstanding then they WOULD brief the PR's.  You can instruct umpires to refrain from tactics without the need to insult.  That seems more like message board grandstanding than an umpire briefing a pitcher.  I mean how loud have you heard this done?  

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2 hours ago, udbrky said:

I've never seen someone brief a pinch runner or hitter

Then why do pitchers get briefed?  Is it maybe because when they come in the game, unlike a pinch runner and pinch hitter, the entire game comes to a halt while they throw 8 warm up pitches?  Do the runners leave their base to go talk to the coach when a pinch runner comes in?  Do the fielders gather and chit-chat?  When a new pitcher comes in it is a unique situation in baseball.  That is why it's done.  It sort of resets the game.  Is it necessary?  No it isn't, but I don't think it needs to be viewed as some nefarious act to draw attention to the umpire.  If the powers that be determine that it is "smitty" then I guess we should all stop doing it.

 

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56 minutes ago, RichMSN said:

When I change pitchers, I cover this with the pitcher.

Why are you coaching any of the pitchers?

Do you tell him before or after he's thrown his warm-up pitches?  Teenage boys memories generally don't last 8 pitches.

Telling them the game situation when they come in is not coaching.  By that token whenever I tell them the number of outs or the count I'm coaching.  If I emphatically announce that the batter is out on a dropped third with first base occupied I'm coaching.  Do you even tell a catcher "stay down and you might get that strike?"  That is WAY closer to coaching than briefing the pitcher.  Oftentimes the runners are off talking to their coaches when the pitcher comes in from warming up.  So he will have to wait until the runners have returned to their bases and look to see where they are.  Should a coach tell him the situation?  Of course.  Is an umpire obligated to tell him?  Of course not.  If the powers to be have determined that it is a "smitty move" to do this and it is frowned upon then I will no longer do it (since I've never felt it was required anyway).  But the only reason I've ever done it is that I saw other experiences umpires and assumed it was a desired practice.  I've never done it to draw any attention to myself.  And I would consider that the vast majority of umpires that do or have done this have done so for the exact same reason.

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1 minute ago, RichMSN said:

None who aren't Smittys do it. Take a hint.

The people I've worked with that do it aren't the ones that get bigger and better assignments.

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Just now, RichMSN said:

None who aren't Smittys do it. Take a hint.

Read my posts completely.  I already said if it is considered "smitty" then we all should stop doing it.  My issue is with umpires trying to come up with other made up reasons of why it is wrong.  "It's grandstanding", or "it's coaching".  Just say it like it is.  The powers to be have determined that this is a "smitty" move.  So to avoid ridicule stop doing it.

It's like bringing a brush on the bases (which I never do now).  There is not a reason for it being "smitty" it just is.  Some things have just been determined to be "smitty".

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Just now, udbrky said:

The people I've worked with that do it aren't the ones that get bigger and better assignments.

To be honest I've never paid enough attention to it to know who does it and cross reference that with who gets the bigger and better assignments.

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Just now, umpire_scott said:

To be honest I've never paid enough attention to it to know who does it and cross reference that with who gets the bigger and better assignments.

Well, I've talked to a lot of the guys this year, learning about how the area is, picking up tips, and it's been easy to notice the ones that do things that stick out - good or bad. I also have a friend who's been in the area a while, and know who he says is solid, and guys that get sectional+ assignments, and do independent/college ball around here. I don't have a spreadsheet or anything.

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Just now, udbrky said:

Well, I've talked to a lot of the guys this year, learning about how the area is, picking up tips, and it's been easy to notice the ones that do things that stick out - good or bad. I also have a friend who's been in the area a while, and know who he says is solid, and guys that get sectional+ assignments, and do independent/college ball around here. I don't have a spreadsheet or anything.

Yeah I know.  Sorry that comment was pretty sarcastic.  

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Do you tell him before or after he's thrown his warm-up pitches?  Teenage boys memories generally don't last 8 pitches.

Telling them the game situation when they come in is not coaching.  By that token whenever I tell them the number of outs or the count I'm coaching.  If I emphatically announce that the batter is out on a dropped third with first base occupied I'm coaching.  Do you even tell a catcher "stay down and you might get that strike?"  That is WAY closer to coaching than briefing the pitcher.  Oftentimes the runners are off talking to their coaches when the pitcher comes in from warming up.  So he will have to wait until the runners have returned to their bases and look to see where they are.  Should a coach tell him the situation?  Of course.  Is an umpire obligated to tell him?  Of course not.  If the powers to be have determined that it is a "smitty move" to do this and it is frowned upon then I will no longer do it (since I've never felt it was required anyway).  But the only reason I've ever done it is that I saw other experiences umpires and assumed it was a desired practice.  I've never done it to draw any attention to myself.  And I would consider that the vast majority of umpires that do or have done this have done so for the exact same reason.

I tell her. I coach fastpitch. I can also yell from the dugout.

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How ironic.  I'm watching the Cardinals-Brewers game and they came out of like a 15 min rain delay and with the bases loaded the batter hit a comebacker to the mound.  Matt Bowman fielded it and tossed to first and started walking off the field thinking it was the third out.  I know that is not the same as the situation on this thread but thought it was kind of funny that it happened that he forgot the game situation right after I had this discussion on this board.  And he was angry at himself, so I'm not implying that the umpires should have told him.

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Gonna paraphrase a quote from one of my favorite movies (A Few Good Men).

 

He is a major league pitcher and it would seem that he cannot remember 3 numbers from here to there

 

 

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17u game yesterday and with a 2-1 count they change the pitcher with bases juiced.

Pitcher finishes his warm ups and I made sure to tell everyone what was what... 2-1 play.

Game on.

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