Gentlemen’s agreements

[BigUmpire]

On regular basis coaches come to the plate meeting and ask for a “gentlemen’s agreement” to modify some rule or rules.

We instruct our group and tell the coaches in the preseason coaches/umpires meeting that we will not allow any such agreement.

We have found that it will grow as the season goes on and by the end of the season there are now multiple piss ant rules that some coach wants to uses as an advantage for his team and if a senior coach can he will try to intimidate a nubie coach to accept his crap rule. Then the next game one or both coaches state “the last ump let us do this” thereby trying to intimidate a rookie ump into doing something he may not understand.

We have an agreement with most of the parks we service that we get to “vet” any “park” rule changes they may want to use so we can determine if they are enforceable and can be administrated during a game.

 

Your thoughts please.

[lawump]

What level of baseball is this?

[kylehutson]

Depends on the level of ball.

HS varsity? Nope - rules is rules.

JV? I don't care as long as they *both* agree.

[BigUmpire]

REC and tournament

[ricka56]

I will listen to their proposal...especially if they want to add additional mercy rules (had coaches agree on 15 after 3...sold). 

Sometimes coaches have worked out the mods prior to the plate meeting. (had coaches waive the out when a team has only 8 players). I'll listen and most likely grant that kind of mod.

But I would be leary of coaches trying to introduce a mod cold. 

[basejester]

Some of the modifications are unfair to parties not represented.  For instance, say there's an intense tournament that strains the pitching of all the teams.  If we allow both teams to reduce the number of innings played, that cheats the other teams in the tournament.

Agreements that are supposedly well-understood at the plate meeting can suddenly become contentious later when there's a bias.  Gentleman's agreements should only be between coaches with no expectation that the umpires will rule on them.  I can't say I've always refused those agreements, but I'm always leery.

 

[lawump]

1 hour ago, BigUmpire said:

REC and tournament

Hopefully you have a good tournament director ("TD") who has instructed you what to do should this arise.  Alternatively, I would tell the coaches that if they want to call the TD over and discuss with him and the TD says that the modification is okay, then we'll use the modification.  Without the TD's approval, I would not do any modifications.  @Basejester gives a pretty good reason why one (as an umpire) should not agree to gentlemen's agreements to modify the rules.

[Tksjewelry]

Tournaments, nope. They get what the tournament lays out.

Travel ball regular season games or rec, I could care less as long as it's reasonable. Usually it's something like not taking an out for a missing or late player and Im fine with that. Or warnings on first balks, also fine with me. I had one game where they wanted to waive the run rules, that one was a solid no. It's never a good sign when they want to waive run rules before that game even starts.

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[basejester]

Fed Rules.  Gentleman's agreement in place to warn on first balks.  The pitcher (with no previous warnings) blows through a set.  (What's your mechanic?)  The batter bats the ball.  (Is the ball live?)

  

[kylehutson]

11 minutes ago, basejester said:

Fed Rules.  Gentleman's agreement in place to warn on first balks.  The pitcher (with no previous warnings) blows through a set.  (What's your mechanic?)  The batter bats the ball.  (Is the ball live?)

  

Something like: "That's a balk. Time! You didn't come set, that's your warning"

At a level where they're warning on balks, the batters also aren't hitting anytime anything strange (like an umpire yelling) is happening. Just sayin'.

[basejester]

7 hours ago, kylehutson said:

Something like: "That's a balk. Time! You didn't come set, that's your warning"

At a level where they're warning on balks, the batters also aren't hitting anytime anything strange (like an umpire yelling) is happening. Just sayin'.

Happened to me last year.

 

[scrounge]

7 hours ago, basejester said:

Fed Rules.  Gentleman's agreement in place to warn on first balks.  The pitcher (with no previous warnings) blows through a set.  (What's your mechanic?)  The batter bats the ball.  (Is the ball live?)

  

My home rec league has this rule....we just kill it. With NFHS rules as the underlying rule base, they've modified the enforcement of the balk with their local rules but they didn't modify the balk=immediate dead ball part. When a coach bitches that his runner had 2B stolen or whatever, it's simply too bad...hey, at least the other team burned their warning, so you've got that going for you. Which is nice.

[ALStripes17]

My home rec league has this rule....we just kill it. With NFHS rules as the underlying rule base, they've modified the enforcement of the balk with their local rules but they didn't modify the balk=immediate dead ball part. When a coach bitches that his runner had 2B stolen or whatever, it's simply too bad...hey, at least the other team burned their warning, so you've got that going for you. Which is nice.

Love caddyshack ... 2?

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[JaxRolo]

Don't do it. Stick to original rules.

[basejester]

The point I was making is that house rules (or gentleman's agreements) often require ad hoc interpretations. 

[renegadewolf]

How I like to approach these "agreements" ,"Gentlemen, we are playing baseball here correct? Good we agree, OBR, now let's play"

[DWDIII]

When I'm doing a game with one warning before calling the balk I understand that it's about the pitcher learning but why penalize the offence? I let the hit stand or let the kid who stole a base stay there and then call time, go talk to the pitcher, tell him what he did wrong, signal to his coach what the infraction was and that he just used his warning. Then play on calling the balk the next time. You can usually find the warning even before a play if you look for it. I don't like to make a big deal about, I walk out, quietly discuss while going through the motions (no stop, shoulder turn, whatever) the coach gets that I'm explaining what was wrong and as I head back I make eye contact with the coach and signal one, that's the warning , play ball.