Fair/Foul?

[Thunderheads]

[johnnyg08]

As close as they get.

[Thunderheads]

As close as they get.

agree.  but what do you have?

[Larry in TN]

agree.  but what do you have?

A bad camera angle...

[Thunderheads]

you guys are flipping hilarious

[noumpere]

agree.  but what do you have?

A good strong call by PU and correctly no indication (of fair/foul or on the "play" at third) by U3.

 

And, an aggressive point to get the 3bcoach away, that might not be appropriate for younger or more sensitive age groups.

[krwill96]

I think Andy Fletcher got it correct. The camera angle is slightly off which makes it very difficult to see for sure. I'm not so sure Hedley still had his foot on the bag when he fielded the ball. It was interesting to see both sides wanting the call to be a fair ball. 

[maven]

agree.  but what do you have?

PU has eyes on the line, and the camera angle is skew. Are you disputing his judgment based on an inferior view, or merely commenting that it's a close call?

[Thunderheads]

PU has eyes on the line, and the camera angle is skew. Are you disputing his judgment based on an inferior view, or merely commenting that it's a close call?

I'm asking for opinions.  Not sure how you can read anymore into than that.....

otoh, ...I do find it funny that quite a few people here seem (see the word "seem") to be reluctant to voice an opinion other than the call in the video (and this is NOT confined to this thread/topic)

[maven]

I'm asking for opinions.  Not sure how you can read anymore into than that.....

otoh, ...I do find it funny that quite a few people here seem (see the word "seem") to be reluctant to voice an opinion other than the call in the video (and this is NOT confined to this thread/topic)

Jeff, we can learn a lot from video. We can talk about positioning and mechanics. We can talk about rule application. We can talk about game management. And we can talk about judgment.

To challenge judgment, though, we need good angles. I can't tell from the camera angle whether that call was good. With a good angle, I can assess judgment calls (just as IR does).

So if folks are reluctant to discuss the judgment call here, I think that's judicious and admirable. Not much more to say than that it was close.

[GerryB]

Stop action I've got fair and an out at third...followed by ejections...

[Thunderheads]

Jeff, we can learn a lot from video. We can talk about positioning and mechanics. We can talk about rule application. We can talk about game management. And we can talk about judgment.

To challenge judgment, though, we need good angles. I can't tell from the camera angle whether that call was good. With a good angle, I can assess judgment calls (just as IR does).

So if folks are reluctant to discuss the judgment call here, I think that's admirable. Not much more to say than that it was close.

that's a PERFECTLY acceptable answer and ....something that I, personally was looking for, actually .....(how's that for a choppy sentence! LOL)

I disagree.  What you posted above (highlighted in red, and, which I just commented on in red) refutes your second comment in blue.  

 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Thunderheads

[MObetterBlue]

PU was in perfect position and he gets paid the big bucks so I'd say foul too.    I actually thought it was foul as well looking at the angle from behind.  Hedley Even seems to move the ball back slightly as if he were "framing" it to make it look fair.

[ricka56]

I'm asking for opinions.  Not sure how you can read anymore into than that.....

otoh, ...I do find it funny that quite a few people here seem (see the word "seem") to be reluctant to voice an opinion other than the call in the video (and this is NOT confined to this thread/topic)

Are you $#!++ng me...you find it funny that contributors aren't willing to stupidly argue about a very close play with a crappy camera angle. Have we really run out of topic that we can actually learn something from, that we resort to getting a perverse kick out of people saying stupid $#!+ here ? I think U-E contributors were smart not to take the bait.

[Thunderheads]

 

 

Are you $#!++ng me...you find it funny that contributors aren't willing to stupidly argue about a very close play with a crappy camera angle. Have we really run out of topic that we can actually learn something from, that we resort to getting a perverse kick out of people saying stupid $#!+ here ? I think U-E contributors were smart not to take the bait.

will you flipping relax Rick and read what @maven and I discussed earlier in the thread?  Or, did you just blow through that?  Bait?   Hardly ..... please.  

I also didn't ask people to stupidly argue .... I believe the term was "what do you have?"  I'm sure you've heard that before, right?

The post with maven and I discussing this that was highlighted in red and blue was exactly what I was looking for.

Why is everyone so damned sensitive about all of this crap.  Jesus people, chill out

 

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by Thunderheads

[LMSANS]

will you flipping relax Rick and read what @maven and I discussed earlier in the thread?  Or, did you just blow through that?  Bait?   Hardly ..... please.  The post with maven and I discussing this that was highlighted in red and blue was exactly what I was looking for.

Why is everyone so damned sensitive about all of this crap.  Jesus people, chill out

 

 

yes Jeff,why is everyone so damned sensitive about all of this crap?

[Thunderheads]

yes Jeff,why is everyone so damned sensitive about all of this crap?

I don't know Larry, comprehension is your friend

[Thunderheads]

If everyone isn't clear yet, .... I'd like to reiterate.....

krill96, maven, GerryB, MobetterBlue ....see their responses.

Plays like this can be discussed and people can have opinions on them and the factors they see that affect them without "going against" some call on an MLB field in a video".  

Just because you say, ..."hmmm, maybe that's fair?" doesn't make you the 'bad' guy.   We're umpires .... and we shouldn't be afraid to answer the question; "what do you have?"  It's an umpire forum.  Why do we appear at times afraid to throw out an opinion, or like @maven did with me, break it down a little?  Maven's post was EXACTLY the kind of thing I was thinking about when I posted this.   I thought it could inspire discussion (I was only part right).   It's August guys,...things are slowing down .....trying to keep it active.  Participate.

My personal opinion on this play (since I never said ANYTHING about it) ........

Looks fair to me, .......(and only based on the video, I'd probably have pointed fair)  ......BUT ......... like others said, including maven, .... that's a skewed camera angle, and Fletcher was RIGHT ON the line where he needed to be

[JaxRolo]

There is not one of us here that can tell if it was a good call or not from the video angle. No way! So I defer to PU.

[johnnyg08]

I can't disagree w/ the call on the field because replay is inconclusive and I don't have the angle from the calling umpire.  

In real time, the first time I watched the video, I wouldn't have been surprised by either call because it was that close.

I'm fine w/ foul.  Sometimes you just have to umpire.  If that's your call in this situation you can't sit there hemming and hawing about how close it is.  It's your call...make it with confidence and clarity, then move on.

Edited August 18, 2015 by johnnyg08

[ricka56]

Plays like this can be discussed and people can have opinions on them and the factors they see that affect them without "going against" some call on an MLB field in a video".  

And I a free to say that post like this (baiting people...yes baiting people to argue about a close calls) are pure trash.
There is nothing, yes, nothing to learn from such posts.

will you flipping relax Rick

 ...if I was anymore relaxed, I'd be comatose.

[johnnyg08]

There is not one of us here that can tell if it was a good call or not from the video angle. No way! So I defer to PU.

I don't always agree w/ Rolando, but in this case I agree with @JaxRolo

[Cav]

There is not one of us here that can tell if it was a good call or not from the video angle. No way! So I defer to PU.

Not from the video angle, but I checked the scorebook and Fletch got it right!

[ElkOil]

Are we all watching the same video?  The ball clearly hit the line.  PU got it wrong.  What can we learn?  Well, positioning is critical on this type of call, and the ump was exactly where he should have been with the perfect angle.  It's not as easy to see the ball hit when the fielder's glove is so close to it and he's scooping it, so take that extra fraction of a second before making the call.  No harm will come of taking the time your brain needs to process what just happened.  Calling a late foul is okay, but calling one too early can create problems.

[Replacematt]

Are we all watching the same video?  The ball clearly hit the line.

So? It wasn't touched on the line.