Sliding with Hands Up

[zoops]

OBR w/NCAA slide rule.  Was working a tournament this weekend and noticed one team would go into second base to break double plays by throwing their hands up high as they slid. No doubt it was intentional.  Nothing ever came of it, but if this action was to contact the throw, would this cause the BR to be out due to the retired runner intentionally interfering with a throw, not for violating the FPSR as the slide itself was on the buttocks and directly into the base?  Would this be the call in regular OBR as well?  Could you call the BR out if you think the play was altered even with no contact?  

I believe this would be the NCAA rule covering it: 7.11r:  A batter is out when...In a force situation, a preceding runner intentionally interferes with the play of a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw the ball in an attempt to complete any play.  

[Replacematt]

This is nothing in all codes.

[BillKen]

OBR w/NCAA slide rule.  Was working a tournament this weekend and noticed one team would go into second base to break double plays by throwing their hands up high as they slid. No doubt it was intentional.  Nothing ever came of it, but if this action was to contact the throw, would this cause the BR to be out due to the retired runner intentionally interfering with a throw, not for violating the FPSR as the slide itself was on the buttocks and directly into the base?  Would this be the call in regular OBR as well?  Could you call the BR out if you think the play was altered even with no contact?  

I believe this would be the NCAA rule covering it: 7.11r:  A batter is out when...In a force situation, a preceding runner intentionally interferes with the play of a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw the ball in an attempt to complete any play.  

If he made contact with the ball, yes, you could get INT on the runner.  I am pretty sure that throwing hands up in Fed is grounds for INT.

[Rich Ives]

OBR w/NCAA slide rule.  Was working a tournament this weekend and noticed one team would go into second base to break double plays by throwing their hands up high as they slid. No doubt it was intentional.  Nothing ever came of it, but if this action was to contact the throw, would this cause the BR to be out due to the retired runner intentionally interfering with a throw, not for violating the FPSR as the slide itself was on the buttocks and directly into the base?  Would this be the call in regular OBR as well?  Could you call the BR out if you think the play was altered even with no contact?  

I believe this would be the NCAA rule covering it: 7.11r:  A batter is out when...In a force situation, a preceding runner intentionally interferes with the play of a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw the ball in an attempt to complete any play.  

Normal sliding technique.

Interference with a throw has to be intentional.

[Kevin_K]

Normal sliding technique.

Interference with a throw has to be intentional.

What is the thought process on teaching this coach?

[The Flush]

What is the thought process on teaching this coach?

To prevent the player from sliding over his own hands.  I have had a youth player break his own arm this way. 

 

[alan2703]

Was taught that long time ago keeps the body relaxed ,you don't drag the your hands and also as The Flush wrote

[noumpere]

Normal sliding technique.

 

Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

I've seen "normal" slides with the hands up where there's clearly no intent to interfere and no one says a word.

I've seen slides with the hands up where there's clearly intent to at least put some kind of thought into F4/6's head that there might be something in the way.

[Rich Ives]

Maybe.  Maybe not.

 

I've seen "normal" slides with the hands up where there's clearly no intent to interfere and no one says a word.

I've seen slides with the hands up where there's clearly intent to at least put some kind of thought into F4/6's head that there might be something in the way.

F4/F6 should know there's going to be something there. Same rationale as " . . continuing to run . ." isn't by itself interference.

Why do f4/f6 throw sidearm?  To encourage the runner to slide.

It's all part of the game.

[noumpere]

F4/F6 should know there's going to be something there. Same rationale as " . . continuing to run . ." isn't by itself interference.

Why do f4/f6 throw sidearm?  To encourage the runner to slide.

It's all part of the game.

"Continuing to run" straight to the base in FED and NCAA can be INT.

[Rich Ives]

"Continuing to run" straight to the base in FED and NCAA can be INT.

Shouldn't be. That can end up requiring the runner  to quit running before he's out.

[maven]

Shouldn't be. That can end up requiring the runner  to quit running before he's out.

It requires him to slide legally or peel off, in order to avoid illegal contact that affects the pattern of play.

If that's what you mean by "requiring the runner to quit running" then I agree.

[Rich Ives]

It requires him to slide legally or peel off, in order to avoid illegal contact that affects the pattern of play.

If that's what you mean by "requiring the runner to quit running" then I agree.

I said "before he's out"

"slide legally or peel off" is after he's out.

F4/F6 know he's going to be there. It's not a surprise. It can be dealt with easily. Why should a runner assist the defense?

[maven]

I said "before he's out"

"slide legally or peel off" is after he's out.

F4/F6 know he's going to be there. It's not a surprise. It can be dealt with easily. Why should a runner assist the defense?

You're being obtuse. The pivot man just put out the runner and is turning a DP. He makes that throw AFTER the runner is out.

So yes, he's already out in the scenario under discussion in this thread. If you would like to start a new thread concerning sliding runners who are not out who throw up their hands, that's great, but they're rarer.

Nobody is suggesting that the offense assist the defense; everyone (else) is discussing what actions constitute interference. The fielder being aware of a runner does not give that runner license to interfere.

That said, I agree with the answer that merely a runner throwing up his hands while sliding is usually nothing. I'd have to see an obviously intentional further act before I ruled INT on this play.

[johnnyg08]

I got two on this a couple years ago under OBR...but technically it wasn't for sliding w/ hands up it was for slapping at the glove after putting his hands up (if one can visualize the poor job I did of explaining that)

[Richvee]

I got two on this a couple years ago under OBR...but technically it wasn't for sliding w/ hands up it was for slapping at the glove after putting his hands up (if one can visualize the poor job I did of explaining that)

Not a poor job at all. I actually called this exact thing last week. As noumpere has said. You can tell the difference between normal slides and slides intended to interfere with the middle infielder...and all doubt is removed when the hands slap at the fielder at the bag..In my case, slapped hard enough to actually knock the glove off F6.

[Rich Ives]

You're being obtuse. The pivot man just put out the runner and is turning a DP. He makes that throw AFTER the runner is out.

So yes, he's already out in the scenario under discussion in this thread. If you would like to start a new thread concerning sliding runners who are not out who throw up their hands, that's great, but they're rarer.

Nobody is suggesting that the offense assist the defense; everyone (else) is discussing what actions constitute interference. The fielder being aware of a runner does not give that runner license to interfere.

That said, I agree with the answer that merely a runner throwing up his hands while sliding is usually nothing. I'd have to see an obviously intentional further act before I ruled INT on this play.

I said: "That can end up requiring the runner  to quit running before he's out."

You responded: "It requires him to slide legally or peel off, in order to avoid illegal contact that affects the pattern of play."

Then I said "Not before he's out", and followed up with "Why should a runner assist the defense?" as that is what it would do if it was required before he was out.

You are limiting it to post-out. I'm not limiting it because your response did not.

[jpperez14]

I called INT on R2 running towards 2nd throwing his hands up in the air, while F4 was turning to throw to F3. 1BC walks towards the dugout (3rd base side) and says great call blue (surprised me because it wasn't sarcastic).

I've never was taught to ever slide to 2nd with your hands up. A big reason was to avoid having ours hands destroyed by the thrown ball.

[Rich Ives]

I called INT on R2 running towards 2nd throwing his hands up in the air, while F4 was turning to throw to F3. 1BC walks towards the dugout (3rd base side) and says great call blue (surprised me because it wasn't sarcastic).

I've never was taught to ever slide to 2nd with your hands up. A big reason was to avoid having ours hands destroyed by the thrown ball.

For this play you should have been taught to slide on your butt, slight sitting up position, with your hands up.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2015 MLBUM (paragraph 36, page 47):

While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act—such as grabbing, tackling, intentionally slapping at the baseball, punching, kicking, flagrantly using his arms or forearms, etc.—to commit an intentional act of interference unrelated to running the bases. Further, if in the judgment of the umpire such intentional act was to prevent a double play, the umpire would rule the batter-runner out as well.

Here’s a link to an MLB video illustrating how this is ruled:

http://m.mlb.com/video/v35403079/?query=oddities%2Bjean%2Bsegura

If anyone can actually embed this video here that would be helpful. I found this one by searching the MLB video site with the tag words of "oddities Jean Segura."

 

[johnnyg08]

Yep, great example.

[Jimurray]

Yep, great example.

Or is it an example of not within reach of the base. Would that slide at the base be called INT if the ball hit his hand?

[johnnyg08]

Or is it an example of not within reach of the base. Would that slide at the base be called INT if the ball hit his hand?

I think this was willful and deliberate interference w/ the intent to break up a double play by throwing his hand up and the thrown ball hitting his hand.  That's why I think they got two on that play.