Which base is awarded?

[Guest Jim]

Runner on first with 1 out. The batter hits a line drive to the right fielder, which is caught. R1 thought it was the 3rd out of the inning, so he kept running. While the runner was between second and third, the right fielder over threw F3 and the ball went into the dugout. Which base do you give the runner? I would give him home.

[maven]

FED: The award is 2 bases from 1B, which is 3B. However, since he was beyond his advance base when the ball went out of play, he is still liable to be called out on a retouch appeal, whether or not he retouches 1B. Here's a play from the 2010 NFHS Interpretations

SITUATION 11: R1 R3 is on third and R2 R1 on first with one out. B4 hits a sinking line drive to center field. R1 R3 tags properly and goes home, while R2 R1 is off with the hit. F8 makes a great catch. R2 R1 is beyond second base as F8 throws back to first in an attempt to double up R2 R1. The ball goes into the dugout with R2 R1 still between second base and third base. R2 R1 touches second base and goes back to touch first base. RULING: The ball is dead and R1 R3's run will count. R2 R1 will be awarded two bases from the base he had at the time of the pitch (first base), so he will be awarded third base. If the defense properly appeals R2 R1being beyond second base at the time the ball went dead, R2 R1 will be declared out. R1 R3's run would still count. (5-1-1g-3, 8-2-5, 8-2-6d-1, 8-4-2q)

Of course, the defense is appealing R1's failure to retouch, not his "being beyond second base at the time the ball went dead," which cannot be appealed. His being beyond his advance base when the ball became dead (NOT at TOT) precludes him from correcting his error.

OBR: The award is based on the runner's position TOT, so he should be awarded home. However, he must still retouch 1B (and 2B on the way) or be liable to be called out on appeal. If he does retouch, then the award becomes 2 bases from there, so he would be awarded 3B.

[maineump]

Which rule set? It is going to depend on the appeal that should happen.

Was he between 2B and 3B at the time of the release.

[Guest Jim]

He was between second and third during the release of the throw by F9. I would like to know both rule sets (FED and OBR), please. It is not something that has happened to me. I just thought about it.

[Omega194]

Runner gets 3rd base. Has to retouch 1st base then 2nd to not be called out on appeal Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[guyinaredhat]

Runner gets home . Unless he goes to retouch then the award is 3rd. 

[noumpere]

Runner gets 3rd base. Has to retouch 1st base then 2nd to not be called out on appeal Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

​See Maven's response.

 

Some of the pro interps have disagreed on this in the past, but I think they've all resolved this as he said

[Nafxos]

 

OBR: The award is based on the runner's position TOT, so he should be awarded home. However, he must still retouch 1B (and 2B on the way) or be liable to be called out on appeal. If he does retouch, then the award becomes 2 bases from there, so he would be awarded 3B.

​Interesting.  How exactly would this work from a mechanics standpoint?  If I'm PU, I call time when the ball goes out of play, point at R1 and say "You, Home".  Then if he's smart enough to know he has to retouch 2nd and 1st, do I say "Sorry, you only get 3rd now"?

 

​

[Mick]

Maven has it fully addressed.  

[Rich Ives]

​Interesting.  How exactly would this work from a mechanics standpoint?  If I'm PU, I call time when the ball goes out of play, point at R1 and say "You, Home".  Then if he's smart enough to know he has to retouch 2nd and 1st, do I say "Sorry, you only get 3rd now"?

 

​

​Yes.      .

[noumpere]

​Interesting.  How exactly would this work from a mechanics standpoint?  If I'm PU, I call time when the ball goes out of play, point at R1 and say "You, Home".  Then if he's smart enough to know he has to retouch 2nd and 1st, do I say "Sorry, you only get 3rd now"?

 

​

​See above.

[indianaumpire15]

@maven and @noumpere

Also with FED, in the OP R1 cannot retouch first legally, correct?  As he is past an advance base.  Unless it was determined that the fielder who made the throw OOP did so intentionally to essentially cause R1 to not be able to retouch legally.

[maven]

@maven and @noumpere

Also with FED, in the OP R1 cannot retouch first legally, correct?  As he is past an advance base.  Unless it was determined that the fielder who made the throw OOP did so intentionally to essentially cause R1 to not be able to retouch legally.

​I've never had this, nor heard of it happening, but I'd guess many OHC's would rather sit in the bus than watch me enforce this (weird) rule.

[noumpere]

@maven and @noumpere

Also with FED, in the OP R1 cannot retouch first legally, correct?  As he is past an advance base.  Unless it was determined that the fielder who made the throw OOP did so intentionally to essentially cause R1 to not be able to retouch legally.

​I think Maven answered that above, but in case it wasn't clear, you are correct.  Even if R1 returns to touch first, any appeal would be an out.

 

And, the next time the fielder intentionally throws the ball out of play will be the first.

[indianaumpire15]

​I think Maven answered that above, but in case it wasn't clear, you are correct.  Even if R1 returns to touch first, any appeal would be an out.

 

And, the next time the fielder intentionally throws the ball out of play will be the first.

Sorry might have missed it.  And I agree with the intentional grow OOP, just that I believe it is referenced.  Thanks for the final clarification.

[ZebraStripes]

​I think Maven answered that above, but in case it wasn't clear, you are correct.  Even if R1 returns to touch first, any appeal would be an out.

 

And, the next time the fielder intentionally throws the ball out of play will be the first.

​Intentional Grounding on F9.  2 base penalty, repeat out 1.