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Obstruction

 

 

8.3.2 SITUATION K:

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges towards the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.

RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal.

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Obstruction

8.3.2 SITUATION K:

F6 fields a ground ball and throws to F3 in attempt to retire B1 at first. The ball is thrown wide. As F3 lunges towards the ball, F3 collides with B1, knocking him to the ground prior to possessing the ball (a) while the runner is short of first base or (b) after the runner has contacted first base.

RULING: (a) Obstruction; (b) legal.

Yes obs but we still ball going into dead ball territory

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All aboard for the trainwreck express. Runners will be boarding at 2B.

 

If obstruction had not occured, the runner would be entitled to 2B if it was the first play on the infield. What would change that?

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All aboard for the trainwreck express. Runners will be boarding at 2B.

 

If obstruction had not occured, the runner would be entitled to 2B if it was the first play on the infield. What would change that?

 

The OBS gets him 1st, not 2nd. He hadn't acquired 1st yet… The runner gets 2nd on the ball out of play, but I don't think many train wreck situations would entail giving him 2nd as well.

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I don't understand why OBS in it of itself would reward the batter-runner 2nd… If the obstruction occurs before 1st base, and the ball say hits the fence and bounces back towards the infield, there is no way that the runner would have gotten to 2nd had the OBS not occurred.

 

I understand FED requires an award of "at least one base", but that one base would be 1st...

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My reasoning is....Casebook tells us that F3 fielding a throw in the basepath OBS. FED tells us all OBS is delayed dead ball. We protect BR to 1st with the OBS call, and further play has the ball going to DBT. Award BR 2nd base. 

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My reasoning is....Casebook tells us that F3 fielding a throw in the basepath OBS. FED tells us all OBS is delayed dead ball. We protect BR to 1st with the OBS call, and further play has the ball going to DBT. Award BR 2nd base. 

 

This. Unless the ball goes way into right field or something funky, I don't see the OBS buying him past 1st.

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You have obstruction which entitles him 1st base. He obtained 1st base on his own, therefore, obstruction is ignored and the play goes on. Since the ball went into dead ball territory, he is given 2nd base.

 

Question- If he had thrown it 3 feet over 1st basemen's head and no obstruction occured, you would still give him 2nd base, right? Same here. The only way obstruction needs to be called is if the 1st baseman obstructed the runner and he was out.

 

On this play, you could have interference if the batter-runner is out of the running lane or obstruction if he is in the running lane. Thats why plate man needs to be at the 45 ft line up 1st base line.

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You have obstruction which entitles him 1st base. He obtained 1st base on his own, therefore, obstruction is ignored and the play goes on. Since the ball went into dead ball territory, he is given 2nd base.

 

Question- If he had thrown it 3 feet over 1st basemen's head and no obstruction occured, you would still give him 2nd base, right? Same here. The only way obstruction needs to be called is if the 1st baseman obstructed the runner and he was out.

 

On this play, you could have interference if the batter-runner is out of the running lane or obstruction if he is in the running lane. Thats why plate man needs to be at the 45 ft line up 1st base line.

 

Depends on where the throw is coming from.  A throw from the shortstop won't make the running lane relevant.  

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You have obstruction which entitles him 1st base. He obtained 1st base on his own, therefore, obstruction is ignored and the play goes on. Since the ball went into dead ball territory, he is given 2nd base.

 

Question- If he had thrown it 3 feet over 1st basemen's head and no obstruction occured, you would still give him 2nd base, right? Same here. The only way obstruction needs to be called is if the 1st baseman obstructed the runner and he was out.

 

On this play, you could have interference if the batter-runner is out of the running lane or obstruction if he is in the running lane. Thats why plate man needs to be at the 45 ft line up 1st base line.

 

Depends on where the throw is coming from.  A throw from the shortstop won't make the running lane relevant.  

 

The throw does not matter if he contacts him in fair territory preventing him from making the catch if it pulls 1st baseman to home plate side of 1st base. It does not matter where throw is coming from if he contacts 1st baseman outside of the running lane. Now granted, his last stride will be in fair territory, but his step before that must be in runners lane as the rule only applies if his last step was from runners lane.

 

Rule 8-4g.The batter- runner is out when he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base;

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You have obstruction which entitles him 1st base. He obtained 1st base on his own, therefore, obstruction is ignored and the play goes on. Since the ball went into dead ball territory, he is given 2nd base.

 

Question- If he had thrown it 3 feet over 1st basemen's head and no obstruction occured, you would still give him 2nd base, right? Same here. The only way obstruction needs to be called is if the 1st baseman obstructed the runner and he was out.

 

On this play, you could have interference if the batter-runner is out of the running lane or obstruction if he is in the running lane. Thats why plate man needs to be at the 45 ft line up 1st base line.

 

Depends on where the throw is coming from.  A throw from the shortstop won't make the running lane relevant.  

 

The throw does not matter if he contacts him in fair territory preventing him from making the catch if it pulls 1st baseman to home plate side of 1st base. It does not matter where throw is coming from if he contacts 1st baseman outside of the running lane. Now granted, his last stride will be in fair territory, but his step before that must be in runners lane as the rule only applies if his last step was from runners lane.

 

Rule 8-4g.The batter- runner is out when he runs outside the three-foot running lane (last half of the distance from home plate to first base), while the ball is being fielded or thrown to first base;

 

 

You would have interference here, not a running lane violation.  RLV is only called on throws that originate behind the base-runner.  

 

As far as the obstruction call from above, you absolutely call it when it happens, not after you see if the runner acquired 1st base or not.  It's a DDB, but you call it when you see it.  I agree it has no bearing on the base award, but to say "the only way obstruction needs to be called is if the runner was out" is incorrect.

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Running lane violation = interference. Same Thing. Out of lane = interference. Both guys where they are suppose to be, on base and running lane = train wreck.

 

Yes, I agree. Obstruction is called, just ignored.


Should have said " only time obstruction is enforced is if the runner is out".

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Just don't want young umpires thinking RLV and INT are exactly the same.  If you tell a HS coach that the runner is out for a RLV on a terrible throw from the shortstop that the 1st baseman was running to snag, because you think it's the same call as interference, it's not going to be pretty.

 

The RLV is there to protect the 1b from being screened by the runner going outside of the lane on a throw from behind, not to give the D an out on a terrible throw from a SS just because the BR is stepping a bit outside the chalk inside or outside the lane.

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I would choose A - the runner got to 1B so the OBS is nullified (no call) and he is awarded two bases from TOP on the throw into DBT.

That is the answer I went with but could see how the other might be correct.

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This is really more of a conceptual problem than an umpiring problem. In practice, I think we would all put the BR on 2B. The only concern is to understand what happened.

 

I agree that the OBS by F3 merits an award, and by the case book and in this play, the award would be a minimum 1 base beyond the OBS, or 1B.

 

The throw out of play also merits an award, in this case 2 bases TOP, which would be 2B.

 

So the conceptual problem concerns how to handle 2 awards. Options might include enforcing the larger award, the smaller award, or adding them together. Put that plainly, I'm guessing everyone here knows you enforce the larger award.

 

I guess some people are worried about what "happens" to the OBS and its award. You could say it is "ignored," or "nullified," or "superseded," or "set aside." Or you could say that you're awarding 1B for the OBS and 2B for the overthrow, so that the awards do not add together but instead "overlap."

 

Interestingly, I do not see a rule or case play that addresses multiple awards to the same runner. Perhaps I'm missing it...

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