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Bruce Almighty: Catch, Possession, Control and Release


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usually on a double play when the transfer comes along, the base touch has already happened and the out is recorded. Plus, you're standing right there on it, its not 90-100 ft away in left field. Easier to see, easier to call.

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usually on a double play when the transfer comes along, the base touch has already happened and the out is recorded. Plus, you're standing right there on it, its not 90-100 ft away in left field. Easier to see, easier to call.

that still doesn't support what some are saying about getting the transfer in the hand .... (I understand what you said here, but)

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Went to the BRD, which references the MLBUM - to wit:

 

"The MLBUM defines that (catch) as "when the momentum of the catch is completed"".

 

This looks to me like the momentum of the catch on Crawford's part has been completed, but since I'm a Red Sox fan, not enough bad things (in baseball) can happen to him. 

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

.....satisfied...........

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guys, although I understand it's a different situation, but there have been many times where while turning a double play you see guys doing the transfer and the ball not getting into the throwing hand and it's called 'voluntary' ..........

I have been taught that a ball that falls to the ground is usually a drop but a ball that pops up in the air was pulled from the glove (proving secure possession with voluntary release) after the tag/catch.

So generally,

ball falls = drop

ball pops up = voluntary release

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

.....satisfied...........

 

 

Jeff you could have just agreed when I posted the same thing from OBR in Post 18!   :wave:  :hopmad:

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guys, although I understand it's a different situation, but there have been many times where while turning a double play you see guys doing the transfer and the ball not getting into the throwing hand and it's called 'voluntary' ..........

I have been taught that a ball that falls to the ground is usually a drop but a ball that pops up in the air was pulled from the glove (proving secure possession with voluntary release) after the tag/catch.

So generally,

ball falls = drop

ball pops up = voluntary release

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

While this makes perfect sense, it can not be the RULE....EVERY time ..... and I agree with the way you use the term 'generally' in your post Steve, ...because it will depend on how the player moves his glove and hand together for the exchange ....

 

I wish I could find an example of this....OH WAIT ....last night, Carl Crawford :wave:

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

.....satisfied...........

 

 

Jeff you could have just agreed when I posted the same thing from OBR in Post 18!   :wave:  :hopmad:

 

No Mike, ...sorry for the confusion, what I'm saying to Rolando's post is that what he quoted/posted was satisfied ....not that I'm satisfied ;)

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The way a catch is defined in OBR leaves room for judgement/interpretation as to what constitutes control and possession until the point of an intentional and voluntary release.

 

Unfortunately Carl can't have a Pee-Wee Herman moment and say "I meant to do that".

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The way a catch is defined in OBR leaves room for judgement/interpretation as to what constitutes control and possession until the point of an intentional and voluntary release.

 

Unfortunately Carl can't have a Pee-Wee Herman moment and say "I meant to do that".

I know, that's why we're having a nice disagreement discussion about this here!  It's all good ..... :D

 

Just another way we all learn from this site! :nod:

 

btw, ....that's funny, but HE DID mean to! ;):wave:

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

.....satisfied...........

 

 

Jeff you could have just agreed when I posted the same thing from OBR in Post 18!   :wave:  :hopmad:

 

Jeff doesn't like you!

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From OBR:

 

In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

.....satisfied...........

 

 

Jeff you could have just agreed when I posted the same thing from OBR in Post 18!   :wave:  :hopmad:

 

Jeff doesn't like you!

 

I like Mike, it's you I dont' care for! :D:wave:

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To me this just reeks of Dreckman trying to find something when nothing is there! Why insert yourself into the game when you have no reason to do so. Routine fly ball and sure looks like he dropped it on the transfer, call the out and move on, wow.

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There are no runners on and therefore no hurry to get the ball back into the infield - meaning transfer of the ball from glove to hand will be casual and usually lackadaisical and can quite possibly result in a ball being dropped straight to the ground. 

 

To all the voluntary release naysayers, what happens if this had been the 3rd out of the inning, F7 began to jog to the infield, and after about 15 steps face planted and dropped the ball?

 

 

I have an out in that case.   In your sitch, the fielder makes a "baseball move".   Jogging to the infield has nothing to do with catching the ball.    There is no momentum left from the act of catching the ball.   

 

There are plenty of situations where we cannot judge voluntary release, but there is TONS of OTHER evidence to suggest that he controlled the ball. 

 

There is no evidence here, other than the fact he is a professional.   If a HS player does the exact same thing, there is no way I am giving him the catch.     

 

To the player - do something / anything to show me you didn't palm the ball and drop it.

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I have a definite catch. 

 

At 1.47/1.48 its clear, he catches it, cleanly and securely in his glove, then on the release he voluntarily rolls it out of his glove and onto his throwing hand, at which point it was bobbled and dropped.

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I have a definite catch. 

 

At 1.47/1.48 its clear, he catches it, cleanly and securely in his glove, then on the release he voluntarily rolls it out of his glove and onto his throwing hand, at which point it was bobbled and dropped.

:shakehead:  :no:  :shakehead:  :no:

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I have a definite catch. 

 

At 1.47/1.48 its clear, he catches it, cleanly and securely in his glove, then on the release he voluntarily rolls it out of his glove and onto his throwing hand, at which point it was bobbled and dropped.

:shakehead:  :no:  :shakehead:  :no:

 

in the video I POSTED, watch :36 to :40 ....I concur with Mudder,

:nod: :nod: :nod:

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I'd LOVE to see an honest raise of hands (tongue in cheek) if this call WAS INDEED ruled a catch ....  I guarantee you all of the people who agree with the call on the field for this play would also agree with the reverse .... guaranteed

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I have a definite catch. 

 

At 1.47/1.48 its clear, he catches it, cleanly and securely in his glove, then on the release he voluntarily rolls it out of his glove and onto his throwing hand, at which point it was bobbled and dropped.

:shakehead:  :no:  :shakehead:  :no:

 

in the video I POSTED, watch :36 to :40 ....I concur with Mudder,

:nod: :nod: :nod:

 

 

I concur with Jax - you don't like us!  :crybaby2:

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I have a definite catch. 

 

At 1.47/1.48 its clear, he catches it, cleanly and securely in his glove, then on the release he voluntarily rolls it out of his glove and onto his throwing hand, at which point it was bobbled and dropped.

:shakehead:  :no:  :shakehead:  :no:

 

in the video I POSTED, watch :36 to :40 ....I concur with Mudder,

:nod: :nod: :nod:

 

 

I concur with Jax - you don't like us!  :crybaby2:

 

:rollinglaugh:

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