balk or nothing?

30 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

I have a pitcher that took a while to come to set, but got there and then the batter requests time more or less as the pitcher is starting the pitch . By all appearances the pitcher seems to think time has been called and stops. This league uses OBR and while 8.05 I'd clear about a pitcher starting and failing to deliver, however since I was not the one who called time and clearly the pitcher seemed to think it was me (I don't have rules handy I am at work) if I recall correctly there is a rule about coaches and possibly players using words like time to confuse the defense. Long question short, do I have a balk or nothing? For the record I've been calling it nothing. I just want to know if I am correct in this.

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Posted · Report post

Rulebook says if the pitcher stops because the batter steps out. In Fed, a smart F1 will pitch. If batter steps out w both feet w/o time, add a strike. If F1 delivers the pitch, it shall be call a strike "REGARDLESS OF LOCATION". I love it. 2 strikes on 1 pitch.

For your sitch, I'm not balking it if I think it's because of something the batter did.

YMMV

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Posted · Report post

Found the rule I was looking for....

4.06

(a) No manager, player, substitute, coach, trainer or batboy shall at any time, whether from the bench, the coach’s box or on the playing field, or elsewhere—

(3) Call “Time,†or employ any other word or phrase or commit any act while the ball is alive and in play for the obvious purpose of trying to make the pitcher commit a balk.

The only difficulty I have in applying this rule is that the batter was not trying to make the pitcher balk, he was legitimately in a normal voice asking for time. Any further input?

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Posted · Report post

I'm most likely protecting the pitcher and calling time.

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Posted · Report post

If F1 stops, grant the time, no balk, and you'll get zero argument from anyone. Balk him and DT HC is lkkely going to the showers early.

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Posted · Report post

renegade,

From the 6.02( b ) Comment:

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go

through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the

pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start

over from “scratch.â€

If the pitcher stops because the batter stepped out or asked for time or someone on the offensive team asked for time, kill it and start over.

You can't let the offense induce a balk, even if that were not their intention.

JM

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renegade,

From the 6.02( b ) Comment:

If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position†with a runner on, he does not go

through with his pitch because the batter has stepped out of the box, it shall not be called a balk. Both the

pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall call time and both the batter and pitcher start

over from “scratch.â€

If the pitcher stops because the batter stepped out or asked for time or someone on the offensive team asked for time, kill it and start over.

You can't let the offense induce a balk, even if that were not their intention.

JM

Yeah. What he said.

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Posted · Report post

If F1 stops, grant the time, no balk, and you'll get zero argument from anyone. Balk him and DT HC is lkkely going to the showers early.

If F1 stops you will probably call time and reset the sit. But do not let it look like you're granting time to the batter. While the hand up for time as the pitcher starts after a slow set might be innocent, there are enough teams that try the "dirty balk" with a runner on 3B where a warning to the batter would be in order.

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Rulebook says if the pitcher stops because the batter steps out. In Fed, a smart F1 will pitch. If batter steps out w both feet w/o time, add a strike. If F1 delivers the pitch, it shall be call a strike "REGARDLESS OF LOCATION". I love it. 2 strikes on 1 pitch.

For your sitch, I'm not balking it if I think it's because of something the batter did.

YMMV

In FED, if the batter steps out with both feet and the pitcher delivers, add TWO strikes. If he steps out with one foot or holds up his hand for time and time is not granted, and the pitcher delivers it's one strike. 6-4-d(1)

If the pitcher fails to deliver it's nothing.

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Posted · Report post

Rulebook says if the pitcher stops because the batter steps out. In Fed, a smart F1 will pitch. If batter steps out w both feet w/o time, add a strike. If F1 delivers the pitch, it shall be call a strike "REGARDLESS OF LOCATION". I love it. 2 strikes on 1 pitch.

For your sitch, I'm not balking it if I think it's because of something the batter did.

YMMV

In FED, if the batter steps out with both feet and the pitcher delivers, add TWO strikes. If he steps out with one foot or holds up his hand for time and time is not granted, and the pitcher delivers it's one strike. 6-4-d(1)

If the pitcher fails to deliver it's nothing.

FED Caseplay:

6.2.4 SITUATION I

With R1 on third base, F1 starts his pitching motion and B2 requests "Time," but the umpire does not grant "Time." B2 steps out of the batter's box with both feet and (a) F1 delivers a pitch, (B) does not deliver the pitch or © throws a wild pitch.

RULING: (a) The umpire shall call two strikes on B2, one on the pitch, and one for stepping out of the box. In (B), the umpire shall call a strike on B2 for stepping out of the batter's box. The balk is nullified. In ©, two strikes shall be called on B2, one on the pitch and one for stepping out. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty)

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Posted · Report post

Yep. Glad you agree with what I said.

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Posted · Report post

Rulebook says if the pitcher stops because the batter steps out. In Fed, a smart F1 will pitch. If batter steps out w both feet w/o time, add a strike. If F1 delivers the pitch, it shall be call a strike "REGARDLESS OF LOCATION". I love it. 2 strikes on 1 pitch.

For your sitch, I'm not balking it if I think it's because of something the batter did.

YMMV

In FED, if the batter steps out with both feet and the pitcher delivers, add TWO strikes. If he steps out with one foot or holds up his hand for time and time is not granted, and the pitcher delivers it's one strike. 6-4-d(1)

If the pitcher fails to deliver it's nothing.

I hear an echo and I agree with both.

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Posted · Report post

Rulebook says if the pitcher stops because the batter steps out. In Fed, a smart F1 will pitch. If batter steps out w both feet w/o time, add a strike. If F1 delivers the pitch, it shall be call a strike "REGARDLESS OF LOCATION". I love it. 2 strikes on 1 pitch.

For your sitch, I'm not balking it if I think it's because of something the batter did.

YMMV

In FED, if the batter steps out with both feet and the pitcher delivers, add TWO strikes. If he steps out with one foot or holds up his hand for time and time is not granted, and the pitcher delivers it's one strike. 6-4-d(1)

If the pitcher fails to deliver it's nothing.

I hear an echo and I agree with both.

You hear that?

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I have to admit, 2 strikes on one pitch.... Nasty penalty. Wacky FED rules, reminds me of those real old Bugs Bunny Cartoons wherethe pitcher throws the ball, it stops, goes back and forth and the batter tkaes multiple swings striking out on one pitch....

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Posted · Report post

Has anyone ever actually called this?

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Posted · Report post

Has anyone ever actually called this?

We tell our guys not to look to call this. I doubt I'll ever see it or call it. I hope we didn't educate somebody that wants to show his rule knowledge.

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Has anyone ever actually called this?

We tell our guys not to look to call this. I doubt I'll ever see it or call it. I hope we didn't educate somebody that wants to show his rule knowledge.

Picture this;

Bottom 7th. Contract school behind by 1. Bases juiced. 2 outs. 3-1 count. Pitcher with control issues is really struggling. Stretch, set, B6 steps out asking for time and HP ends the game applying this rule. What a sh*tstorm!!!

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Posted · Report post

I had an OBR. game once where pitcher was about to pitch and stopped with a R3 because a coach called time from the dug out. I immediately called time and said " That's nothing". Didn't hear a word from anyone. It dawned on me about three pitches later that it was the DC that had called time.

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Has anyone ever actually called this?

We tell our guys not to look to call this. I doubt I'll ever see it or call it. I hope we didn't educate somebody that wants to show his rule knowledge.

Picture this;

Bottom 7th. Contract school behind by 1. Bases juiced. 2 outs. 3-1 count. Pitcher with control issues is really struggling. Stretch, set, B6 steps out asking for time and HP ends the game applying this rule. What a sh*tstorm!!!

You're not implying that the PU should ignore the proper application of the rule, are you?

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Posted · Report post

Has anyone ever actually called this?

We tell our guys not to look to call this. I doubt I'll ever see it or call it. I hope we didn't educate somebody that wants to show his rule knowledge.

Picture this;

Bottom 7th. Contract school behind by 1. Bases juiced. 2 outs. 3-1 count. Pitcher with control issues is really struggling. Stretch, set, B6 steps out asking for time and HP ends the game applying this rule. What a sh*tstorm!!!

You're not implying that the PU should ignore the proper application of the rule, are you?

If PU has the proper vigilance and mechanics, the play is dead before the second foot has a chance to get out.

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Has anyone ever actually called this?

No because theres also a case play where only one strike is called and especially given the contradiction thats the one I choose to enforce.

I recall that FED has said that this is a left over error. Why they dont go in and fix it I dont know.

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Has anyone ever actually called this?

No because theres also a case play where only one strike is called and especially given the contradiction thats the one I choose to enforce.

I recall that FED has said that this is a left over error. Why they dont go in and fix it I dont know.

See post #10 in this thread. It has a case play for the 2 strike scenario as well.

I can't imagine ever calling it.

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Posted · Report post

Has anyone ever actually called this?

No because theres also a case play where only one strike is called and especially given the contradiction thats the one I choose to enforce.

I recall that FED has said that this is a left over error. Why they dont go in and fix it I dont know.

The caseplay reflects the rule so I don't know what other caseplay you would be refering to:

As BAM cited:

6-2-4-d.1

1. If the pitcher, with a runner on base, stops or hesitates in his delivery because the batter steps out of the box (a) with one foot or (B) with both feet or © holds up his hand to request "Time," it shall not be a balk. In (a) and ©, there is no penalty on either the batter or the pitcher. The umpire shall call "Time" and begin play anew. In (B), a strike shall be called on the batter for violation of 7-3-1. In (a), (B) and ©, if the pitcher ­legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. Thus, two strikes are called on the batter in (B). If the umpire judges the batter's action to be a deliberate attempt to create a balk, he will penalize according to 3-3-1o.

Not that I encourage looking for this infraction.

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We tell our guys not to look to call this. I doubt I'll ever see it or call it. I hope we didn't educate somebody that wants to show his rule knowledge.

Picture this;

Bottom 7th. Contract school behind by 1. Bases juiced. 2 outs. 3-1 count. Pitcher with control issues is really struggling. Stretch, set, B6 steps out asking for time and HP ends the game applying this rule. What a sh*tstorm!!!

You're not implying that the PU should ignore the proper application of the rule, are you?

If PU has the proper vigilance and mechanics, the play is dead before the second foot has a chance to get out.

Oh, I see... You're an advocate of inserting yourself into the game, rather than administering the rules as written.

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Posted · Report post

Oh, I see... You're an advocate of inserting yourself into the game, rather than administering the rules as written.

I don't think either of those statements mean what you think they do.

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