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runner hit by ball

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Posted · Report post

Had this situation come up today. I was the base umpire for the game. There were

runners on first and third. I was in the B position. The batter hits a very slow roller

down the third base line. The ball goes into foul territory and passes the third baseman.

The runner from third is behind the fielder closer to third base. Once the ball is past the

third baseman it takes a strange bounce and hits the runner who had moved into fair

territory to avoid being hit by the foul ball. My partner called the runner from third out

and a dead ball. He came to me for help and I told him if the runner was in foul territory

it would be a foul ball and if he was in fair territory he would be out. However, something

that i did not think about was that the ball had passed the fielder and hit the runner who

was standing right behind him. Now that I think about it maybe the ball should have been

left in play because the third baseman had a chance to field the ball and did not.

An opinions.

Lefty

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Posted · Report post

If no other fielder had a play on the ball, it's live and he's not out.

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Posted · Report post

Trout is correct.

I hear that alot :D

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Posted · Report post

Trout is correct.

I hear that alot :D

You are correct in your answer but I think you cheated! :wave:

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Posted · Report post

Trout is correct.

I hear that alot :D

You are correct in your answer but I think you cheated! :wave:

I did. I called my buddy Rainman and asked him what the answer was

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Posted · Report post

The real question, how do you rule if your partner calls it dead and comes to you, like in the OP? You know that it shouldn't be an out but now he's killed the play.

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Posted · Report post

How close behind the fielder was the runner? 5 feet - play the bounce. 20 feet - that's an out.

The exemption is for a runner "immediately behind" the fielder. Reason: no time to avoid.

5.09(f ) 7.09(k )

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Posted · Report post

OBR runner out dead ball. FED NCAA runner not out ball stays live

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Posted · Report post

Can't unring the bell. Once it's dead, it's dead. You can get together on the out and get THAT right, but too late killing it.

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Posted · Report post

OBR runner out dead ball.

Kind of a snap judgment w/o seeing how close R3 & F5 may have been. I don't know that I subscribe strictly to Rich's 5'/20' comparison, but that's certainly the right idea.

Curious how you came to that conclusion - ?

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Posted · Report post

The real question, how do you rule if your partner calls it dead and comes to you, like in the OP? You know that it shouldn't be an out but now he's killed the play.

Not a perfect solution but, if your partner does decide to oveturn his initial 'Out' call based upon your additional information, I would think you would return all runners to their TOP bases and put the BR back in the box w/the previous count.

I know there are no 'do-overs' in baseball, but in this case (where the problem was caused by an umpire's lack of rules knowledge) I think this is probably the way to go.

Oh - and your partner's gonna need a cold one to wash down that sh!t sandwich the DM just handed him.

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Posted · Report post

Fixing it...Assuming when R3 was hit no other fielder had a play on the ball, I think I would be more inclined to treat it like a batted ball hitting an umpire before it passed an infielder. Leave R3 at third, advance R1 to second and BR to first. Batter did in fact hit a fair ball, past F5, that was incorrectly killed by PU.

Lefty - did your partner come to you on his own or was this after speaking to one of the (probably offensive) managers? From your OP, I am guessing you left it as an out...did anyone argue?

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Posted · Report post

Not a perfect solution but, if your partner does decide to oveturn his initial 'Out' call based upon your additional information, I would think you would return all runners to their TOP bases and put the BR back in the box w/the previous count.

I know there are no 'do-overs' in baseball, but in this case (where the problem was caused by an umpire's lack of rules knowledge) I think this is probably the way to go.

No. You can NEVER have a do-over in eating a call.

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Posted · Report post

Fixing it...Assuming when R3 was hit no other fielder had a play on the ball, I think I would be more inclined to treat it like a batted ball hitting an umpire before it passed an infielder. Leave R3 at third, advance R1 to second and BR to first. Batter did in fact hit a fair ball, past F5, that was incorrectly killed by PU.

I think I agree. BR awarded a single, runners advance if forced

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Posted · Report post

OK - Retraction.

I like 24sdad's solution better than the one I posted.

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Posted · Report post

Sorry for the slow reply. The runner in this situation was right behind

the fielder, In fact he was so close I did not see the ball hit him. When

my partner came over to see me after he called the runner out. He told me

the ball had hit the runner, He wanted my opinion on the play. I seem to

remember yelling from both managers. One wanted an out and the

other a foul ball I think.

Lefty

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Posted · Report post

How close behind the fielder was the runner? 5 feet - play the bounce. 20 feet - that's an out.

The exemption is for a runner "immediately behind" the fielder. Reason: no time to avoid.

5.09(f ) 7.09(k )

I have never heard of a distance exception. It is that way because the fielder has made their attempt so there is no play to interfere with. If ability to avoid was a consideration then the second fielder having a shot wouldn't be there. Simply if the runner deeper than the fielder and behind him, not twenty feet away, and another fielder doesn't have a play then it is a live ball. Same rule cites as Rich.

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Posted · Report post

How close behind the fielder was the runner? 5 feet - play the bounce. 20 feet - that's an out.

The exemption is for a runner "immediately behind" the fielder. Reason: no time to avoid.

5.09(f ) 7.09(k )

I have never heard of a distance exception. It is that way because the fielder has made their attempt so there is no play to interfere with. If ability to avoid was a consideration then the second fielder having a shot wouldn't be there. Simply if the runner deeper than the fielder and behind him, not twenty feet away, and another fielder doesn't have a play then it is a live ball. Same rule cites as Rich.

Explain "immediatly back". It's in both rules.

20' may not be the real distance but the basic concept is that if the runner should have a reasonable expectation that a fielder may make a play then he's exempt. Once the ball is some distance past the fielder he no longer has that excuse as he now has time to avoid the ball.

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Posted · Report post

Directly behind means inline or close, no distance required. If he is deeper than the F5 and F6 but the ball is between them, he is out because he wasn't behind them.

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Directly behind means inline or close, no distance required. If he is deeper than the F5 and F6 but the ball is between them, he is out because he wasn't behind them.

I agree.

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Posted · Report post

Directly behind means inline or close, no distance required. If he is deeper than the F5 and F6 but the ball is between them, he is out because he wasn't behind them.

While I agree with your conclusion I'm not sure how it applies at least to Rich's comment. I dont see the words "directly behind" in 7.09k. I do see the words "immediately back" and I agree with Rich that it means some short distance where the runner should of expected the ball to be fielded and doesnt have time to react so isnt out when hit. If the runner is further back then he has time to react and is out when hit.

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